Episode 1032 - Ms. Karen Averill
In this episode, Jeremy chats with Ms. Karen Averill about her journey through martial arts, competitions, and the impact of martial arts on character development.
Ms. Karen Averill - Episode 1032
SUMMARY
In this episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Jeremy Lesniak speaks with Karen Averill about her journey in martial arts, the importance of community, and the impact of martial arts on personal development. She discusses the evolution of competition, the role of instructors, and the changing landscape of gender in martial arts.
Ms. Averill shares her experiences in teaching, competing, and the lessons learned along the way, emphasizing the importance of confidence and character development in martial arts training. She also explores the challenges faced in judging and coaching, the impact of social media on safety awareness, and the necessity of training for flight crews.
TAKEAWAYS
Instructors should be open about their learning journey to motivate students.
Competition can be a valuable experience for personal growth.
Gender distinctions in martial arts have evolved over time.
The culture of tournaments has changed significantly.
The importance of control in sparring and competition is crucial.
Creativity in martial arts can be expressed through everyday objects.
The evolution of competition has introduced new and diverse weapons.
Judging in martial arts requires building confidence in both judges and competitors.
Encouragement is crucial for participants in martial arts competitions.
Social media can be a tool for raising awareness about safety issues.
Understanding the psychology of safety in public spaces is important.
It's never too late to start martial arts, regardless of physical ability.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Martial Arts and Community
02:02 The Impact of Martial Arts on Character
04:20 Teaching and Learning in Martial Arts
10:04 The Journey of Competition
19:20 The Evolution of Gender in Martial Arts
26:51 The Changing Landscape of Tournaments
32:50 Creativity in Martial Arts
34:35 Evolution of Competition and Weapons
37:21 Judging and Coaching in Martial Arts
39:33 The Importance of Encouragement in Competition
49:42 Teaching Personal Safety and Awareness
46:34 Challenges in School Safety Programs
49:30 The Role of Social Media in Safety Awareness
53:52 Training Flight Crews for Safety
57:36 The Psychology of Safety in Public Spaces
01:00:42 Closing Thoughts on Martial Arts and Life
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
✅Subscribe to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio on the following platforms:
🎧Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3mVnZmf
🎧Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3yHVdHQ
✅You can find whistlekick on all social media platforms using the handle @whistlekick or visit our website at https://www.whistlekick.com or https://www.whistlekickmartialartsradio.com
Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak (01:53.238)
What's going on everyone welcome back to another episode of Whistlekick martial arts radio. Today I'm joined by Karen Averill. My name is Jeremy Lesniak. Thanks for being here. Karen thank you for being here. We'll get started in our conversation. I'm really excited about in just a moment for the audience out there. Hey if you're new to what we do Whistlekick.com is the place to start all the things we do to connect educate and entertain the traditional martial artists of the world.
If you believe like me that martial arts makes us better, help us in route to our goal to get everybody in the world to train for at least six months. Now this show is part of what we do along those lines. So visit whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com for all the things related to the show, including subscribing to the email newsletter, a specific newsletter. Just for those of you who check out this show, we're going to email you on the day episodes come out and give you links, direct links right in the email to the video.
and the audio, but of course you can still subscribe wherever works for you. Any of your podcast players, Spotify is letting us upload video now so you can check us out there, but we're also YouTube, Apple, you name it, we're there. And with that, we're here, Karen. Thanks for joining me today. How are you doing?
Karen (03:09.758)
doing fantastic. Thank you so much for having me. like, well, and thanks to Gabe and Jenny. They were kind of the ones who, you know, put my name in.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:12.824)
Thank you.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:17.762)
Gabe and Jenny Sue, both have been on the show. Two of my favorite people. Aren't they the best?
Karen (03:24.724)
They really are, you know, I mean, it's amazing the people I have met in the martial arts there. It's an incredible group of people. mean, they're, I mean, what can you say about them?
Jeremy Lesniak (03:26.478)
Do you have
Ugh.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:36.984)
Yeah.
You know i have this area and i'm curious what you think about this so i said is part of the intro i think that martial arts brings out the best in people and so if that's true then martial arts as a group overall. Are better than an average cross section.
I think that speaks to what you're saying. You meet these wonderful people and no, because there are some folks out there who, you know, maybe they're newer or maybe there's a martial artist who treated them poorly. martial arts doesn't make us perfect. It doesn't completely absolve us of our sins. It doesn't, right? It doesn't make us, you know...
Karen (04:02.801)
I agree.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:25.198)
I'll go back to perfect. It doesn't make us perfect, but if you take a hundred people who train and a hundred people who don't train, I think you're going to find the hundred people who train are more worth hanging out with.
Karen (04:39.422)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And, you know, I think it's important for us as martial artists and especially as instructors to, you know, the kids that I taught, they were always when they'd ask questions, I'd be like, well, I don't know. And they're like, what do mean you don't know? You're like. And I said. I said, well, guess what? I don't know everything, but.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:00.088)
You can do it, though. Don't you know absolutely everything?
Karen (05:07.294)
You know what? I'll tell you what. I'll research it and next class, I'll tell you what I found out. And you know, it'd be things like, you know, why do you snap your wrist, you know, on a block? And, you know, those types of things. so, but you know, the more I told them that I didn't know, the more they were willing to ask questions because they didn't feel so silly, I guess, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:34.946)
I have this theory that when a martial arts instructor is more willing to let their students know that they themselves, the instructor, is still on their own path of learning, the students are that much more motivated to progress in their own journey.
Karen (05:50.43)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (05:55.145)
And we're the examples. mean, you know, we are the examples to all of these kids and, you know, even adults. And so we have to sit there and be honest with them and encourage, you know, questions and motivate them, you know, to be like we are. And, you know, it goes back to all of the people we know.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:55.214)
What do think? Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:10.766)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (06:24.74)
in the martial arts and how amazing they are. And, you know, to see their kids growing up and their families and, you know, it's kind of like I always told, you know, my, my kid, my, I call them my kids. I don't, I don't have children, but, you know, it's, you know, it's like I always told them, you know,
Jeremy Lesniak (06:41.116)
You're not the only one.
Karen (06:50.64)
It's really nice that I don't, and this is actually when they got older because, you know, here we are 20 years from now and some kid who's 24, 25, you know, is like, you probably don't remember me. And I'm like, well, if I do, you were probably a lot shorter and a lot younger.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:56.622)
Hmm.
Karen (07:20.886)
And but I did find that, you know, if I like covered their eyes and just look at their eyes, I recognize. So many of them, and I always tell them, I says, you know what does my heart good to never see your names in the police reports? And they're like, yeah, well, that's because we knew you knew where we lived. But, you know, it's.
Jeremy Lesniak (07:26.814)
Fascinating. Cool.
Karen (07:48.107)
You know, like I said, being the examples, I have seen a lot of. And I guess it was really early on in the tournaments where schools and instructors were very aggressive. And. I mean, my my little kids were all of a sudden they were like grouped around me and terrified, you know, I'm like, what's going on? And I look over and here is this.
school and they're chanting die die die and I was like oh and these kids are like we don't have to go in the ring with them do what you and I'm like okay
Jeremy Lesniak (08:31.15)
Are you sure that, you know, we haven't stumbled into some some Cobra Kai fan fiction sort of stuff? Oh man.
Karen (08:40.266)
Very, very possible. I'll be honest with you, I was not fond of this instructor. He was very, like I said, he's, you know, and, you know, again, you know, it was an intimidation tactic, but we're talking five and six year olds. I mean, seriously?
Jeremy Lesniak (08:50.796)
I can see why.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:02.702)
There's a line and that is so clearly over it.
Karen (09:06.65)
And it is just ridiculous. You know, but yeah, when we go to the movie situations, I'll be honest with you, know, during Mortal Kombat, judging, I swear if I heard Mortal Kombat one more time, I think one tournament I heard it 30 times. It was like you were cringing. I finally told the other instructors, I'm like,
I will actually give extra points to the kid who does not use Mortal Kombat.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:43.794)
For, I think it was one to two years, was the music that I used in Grands. And there might only be two or three people who could possibly listen to this that will know the next piece. But I'm not even going to name the person. There was somebody I knew who I loved. I looked up to this person very well. And at the opening, when in the music, the person yells, moral combat, that's how this person opened their form. They would yell.
Mortal Kombat with the music. If you had 30 in a day, somebody else did that.
Karen (10:16.682)
Yeah, oh yeah, they were all, you know, I mean, it was crazy, you know, it would be like, you know, and it was great because again, you know, it was a range of people. It wasn't just the kids, you know, it was adults too. you know, and, but to see a little five year old, you know, went, but like I said, after about the 30th one,
Jeremy Lesniak (10:27.15)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:40.846)
you know, many times, right?
Karen (10:44.828)
you were just like, you could just see everybody just tensing up. But, you know, always fun times and fun stories, you know, it's, but yeah, I, don't know, you know, the movies were always interesting, you know, like I said, you know, no, you can't run through a warehouse with 20 guys shooting at you.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:57.326)
Thanks
Jeremy Lesniak (11:10.818)
You can, but probably not for very long. It's probably a short scene in real life.
Karen (11:13.05)
And, you know, yeah, and, you know, you can't kick guns out of people's hands. know, but, you know, yeah, there was a lot of training sessions and classes when all of the martial arts movies came out and, you know, they saw people doing amazing things and, you know, they're like.
We want to learn how to run up a wall and flip backwards. And I'm like, so would I, but you know what? It's not going to be happening in our lifetime.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:44.238)
This is not the place for that.
Yeah.
Now we're talking about competition. You have a shirt that if I'm reading it correctly suggests it is a competition, a martial arts competition. Okay, so it's a tiger. saw Northwest Nationals. It had that tournament shirt vibe.
Karen (11:57.779)
Yes. Yeah.
Karen (12:08.927)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:10.542)
If you, the way you're talking about competition suggests to me that you've been to a few of them. Maybe not a casual attendee or casual competitor. Am I getting that right?
Karen (12:20.2)
yeah.
Karen (12:24.86)
yes, no, I have been in competition since I was probably like 23. So 40 some years. I'm 69 right now. I'm fine with telling people, know, it's like so, and, you know, did national competitions and was, you know, rated first nationally at one time.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:35.024)
I wasn't going to guess and do math. I always let the guess do the math.
Karen (12:54.762)
in fighting and, you know, yeah, did a lot of competitions. And then I kind of got to a point in my life where, you know, I was like, you know, I think I'm going to let the younger generation kind of take over the, the mantle. What's that?
Jeremy Lesniak (13:08.76)
Why, why compete? Why, why compete? Why would you compete? And I ask this because you said you started in your twenties and most of the people I know that are heavy competitors started competing in their youth as part of the early stages of their martial arts. Now, I don't even know when you started training, but I don't know too many people that start competing in their twenties and do it for decades.
Karen (13:28.682)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (13:36.137)
Yeah, that was me. I grew up in Los Angeles or in the Los Angeles area. Always wanted to learn martial arts, but we couldn't afford it. And so when I moved to Oregon, I started working out at the gym over at Chip Wright's. And they have the karate classes up there. And so I was like...
Man, that just sounds like so much fun. I wonder if, you know, I can switch out my gym membership for karate membership. And so, you know, we did that and I started training right around 23. It was known as it. Well, it still is. It is known as a fighting school. And so a lot of our focus was on fighting. You know, pretty much.
you started being an instructor, you know, after a year of training easy, you know, started as assistant instructor and then went on. And I found when I became a head instructor, I was, you know, I would always tell my students, know, let's, you know, gotta, well, you don't have to compete, but if they were interested in competing,
but I couldn't see sending them out there for something that I wasn't myself doing. And so I continued fighting. do, you know, forms and katas. I do weapons. Pretty much did everything that I could possibly do. And I told the kids, know what? And you know, they're like, I hate forms. And I said, but I know, but it's okay to.
You know, it's okay to hate forms. I didn't like forms. And I said, but you know what? The experience that you get is very, very important. And I said, besides that, your parents paid good money for you to, you know, be in all these divisions. And, and so I really encouraged them and, and I continued. Well, not only because I enjoyed it, but I really did love it. But, you know, again, I couldn't see.
Karen (16:00.235)
you know, telling the kids that they should end encouraging them to compete if I wasn't doing it. And, and
Jeremy Lesniak (16:09.698)
a little bit because and we'll come back to competition in a moment but I think we need some context because the idea that you went huh I'm interested in martial arts I'd like to try that maybe I'll sweep up switch out my gym membership to do karate to becoming a head instructor that's you know that's not an obvious path not everyone takes that path you did but what I heard that I think is even more interesting is a year in you started assistant instructing
And that tells me it was something you really enjoyed. So the question is why, what, what was it about training that you just wanted to do so much that you wanted to help others do it?
Karen (16:43.493)
loved it.
Karen (16:53.57)
You know, seeing the progress, I guess, of the kids and not only in the martial arts, but seeing them grow. And, you know, a lot of the kids didn't have an adult figure that they could look up to. And I don't know, I just always really enjoyed it. I loved their curiosity. Like I said, they were always asking questions.
I saw it as an opportunity. mean, I know it gave me a huge amount of confidence. I mean, if you had asked me to, you know, my terror was standing up in class, you know, and that type of a thing. But then, gaining confidence, I started doing, we would always do demonstrations at.
like the county fairs and that type of thing. And so all of a sudden, you know, I kind of advanced to, wow, okay, I feel confident enough to do this and started doing that. And, you know, it was just, you know, the martial arts was just a huge confidence builder for me. And it's, it's a complete turnaround to the way I am. I was really more the shy kind of a person.
then I kind of tell people that I'm now breaking out of my shy, unassuming mode. And the ones that are like, you had, they're like, you had one. And so I think it was just a natural progression, you know, wanting to give that same confidence to children. And so, and then of course, you know, it expanded into
Jeremy Lesniak (18:26.134)
You don't, you don't, I've done enough of these. You don't strike me as shy.
Karen (18:49.286)
you know, them good people. You know, we'd go to, we'd do kickathons for autism. One year they did a kickathon and they got enough money up for a little boy who needed a wheelchair. And, you know, we'd go and deliver dinners during the holidays.
And you know, a lot of the instructors were like, you know, well, no, I'm just going to go deliver them. I'm not taking the kids. And I'm like, wow, this could be such a great learning experience for him. And so I'd always take the kids. And one of them came out going, I never knew people lived like this. And it was huge. It was a huge impact. And so, yeah, I think.
I think it was more the confidence builder that I gained that I really wanted to pass on to kids especially. I they were, I loved them. I absolutely adore children.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:58.286)
There's something in what you're talking about that suggests to me something outside of martial arts. Maybe it was the way you were raised, maybe doing the math. I don't know if you went to school, but the way you're talking about kids sounds like someone who came through an early elementary education program.
Karen (20:20.49)
I went to Catholic school throughout my entire life. I guess, I know, I started off in kindergarten and kind of worked my way up from there. Living in LA is, I mean, it's scary now, but it was scary 30 years ago. It hasn't changed. I think you just hear about it more, but.
And that's what kind of I wanted to learn the martial arts because I can't run. you can ask any of my track teachers. So I figured I'd have to fight my way out of a situation and, you know, and learn, you know, how to avoid them. So.
So yeah, I don't know. I guess I kinda just went from there.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:23.724)
So let's go back to competition. So you start training, fall in love with training, start teaching. I think I'm hearing fall in love with teaching. Start competing. And you didn't say it, but it sounds like fell in love with competing.
Karen (21:40.999)
definitely, definitely. I'll be honest, do it in forms still. give me weapons, give me fighting. I'm good with that. Forms are always difficult for me and so I can really relate to the kids that can't do it, that have a hard time with it.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:42.989)
Why?
Karen (22:10.25)
Yeah, absolutely loved the competition and it was more, you know, just an aging thing that took me out of it. you know, and, you know, it was, when I started, there were very few women in competition, very few. And so we were always fighting the men.
they're, you know, they, unfortunately, when I was at Chip Wright's in the Chuck Norris system, they were okay with that. But then, you know, I don't know, appearances and culture changes and everything else, you know, it's like, well, you know, we won't, we don't want to give the appearance of men beating up on women. And we're all like,
What are you talking about? We're beating up on them. And so it kind of got weird, you know, around that time. But, you know, like I said, when I was going through the ranks, there were probably maybe five women, regular women going to tournaments. Me and my one of my best girlfriends, we'd always do like a tandem weapons division.
and
You know, we went to Las Vegas for an international tournament. And the promoter comes up to us and he's like, so we're gonna have you guys fight together the first fight.
Karen (23:58.163)
He said, because we only have five of you. And I said, we did not fly 1200 miles to fight each other, to do the same thing we do every day. And they're like, well, we don't have enough women. And we're like, fine, let us fight the men. And they were like, well, they actually considered it, but then they opted against it.
Yeah, no, there used to be a time where, you know, I actually went to a competition where men and women could fight together.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:35.956)
This is such an interesting subject because when I've had the chance to talk to a few people who trained you know back in the sixties and they talk about this really interesting early period where.
really knew what was going on even the instructors right so many of them had earned rank from serving overseas and they had you know one two four years right and not to say that this is everyone but so many of them they had a few years of training and everybody was just kind of figuring things out and i've heard some of them talk about women being in the class but there was no gender distinction it was just everybody was there and sometimes it was in the kids are there
and the kids are held to the same standards and men, everybody's held to the same standards. And I can absolutely see, okay, here are some places where maybe that doesn't go so well, but there's also something really, I guess I'll use the word fair, something really interesting and fair about it. And what I think I'm hearing from you is that's kind of how you liked it.
Karen (25:40.335)
definitely. I always loved the different, I mean, not being able to differentiate between genders. I didn't see any, well, you know, again, it was a different time. We never even really thought about it, I guess. It was just, I don't know, that's just the way the classes were. you know, everybody fought together. And I don't know, we never really, you know, was...
We kind of joked about it because, a lot of times the women, you know, especially if we were doing tournament training and we were, you know, kind of doing them like we were out there fighting and everything. And a lot of times, you know, the guys would get beat. they had and I finally explained to him, I said, you guys don't understand. I said, you guys stand across the ring.
Jeremy Lesniak (26:22.99)
Hmm.
Karen (26:38.694)
think my gosh, it's a woman. I better not hurt her We stand across the ring and say holy crap. There's a guy and we better just you know bring it on and so you guys unintentionally lighten up it's not even a conscious thought for you and so you know they but it was really interesting because I loved it when you know the women would
succeed and you know and had many times where you know was teaching in class with a new student a guy and he'd be like you know we'd be doing takedowns and he'd like take me down is slowly you know take me to the mat and I'm like what are you doing I said take me down he's like well I don't want to hurt you I'm like okay
So then I would get up and I would take him down. I'm like, this is the way we do it. And you're not going to hurt me, but you know. And we didn't fight. sorry. You know, we weren't required to wear all the gear that everybody has to wear now. You know, I mean, you know, we had, you know, we never even wore shin pads or.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:40.472)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:48.258)
I grew up with a very capable feat. I'm sorry. I'm talking over you. Go ahead.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:58.542)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (28:06.556)
you know, the big chest protector things and, you know, our helmets, you know, that was time we, you know, I mean, most we wore mouthpieces and that was it. But again, you know, during that time, I think you learned a lot more control than I don't know what I'm seeing, I guess currently.
But I could be wrong because, you know, I don't see a lot of classes, but I know in tournaments, it's very, very hard to contain them on the contact thing. And whether it's the thrill of the fight or whatever, but, you know, we had...
Jeremy Lesniak (28:55.438)
This is, I spent some time refereeing and this is a subject that comes up a lot and what I think it turned, what I think has happened is...
Jeremy Lesniak (29:11.854)
I think a lot of us have a hard time in the corners.
Calling excessive contact when that's really okay, we're going to penalize you for clearly demonstrating what we have been training you to do granted out on the street and now we're in competition. We've got to give you a different set of rules and I think a lot of instructors because let's face it most referees are instructors. I think they have a hard time reconciling that with their brain and there is something to be said about. How people go when they don't have gear.
Karen (29:36.319)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (29:40.265)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (29:47.626)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:50.872)
People tend to, because most of, right, when we train in class, not every school, but in my school, until someone reaches a certain rank, we don't even bother with gear because they're not going hard enough. And they dial in where their control is without gear. And they know where that line is and they get really good at finding that line. And then you throw a two inches of foam on it and that line's very different.
Karen (30:14.246)
Exactly. that's, that's, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I mean, it seems, yeah, once you had got headgear, it's like they couldn't, I don't know, make that adjustment or, you know, I don't know, but it certainly is different. I mean, we, we were always taught the, you know, the three levels of control, you know, tapping,
kind of going through moving the head and then coming all the way through. You know, but I don't know. It's kind of interesting. I personally was really happy when they put in the rule of because there was a lot of swearing going on in tournaments. I mean, my gosh, it was like there are children present. Cover your ears.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:10.894)
I don't think I've seen a whole lot of that. That... Wow.
Karen (31:14.598)
Well, it's interesting because, you know, when we're talking about this shirt, Pacific Northwest actually instituted a $25 fine if you swore in the ring, if you cussed in the ring. I mean, I made a ton of money one year. I mean, because I'm the head judge. mean, I was ruthless. It's like, know.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:30.092)
That fix it is.
Karen (31:43.659)
And I said to man, 25 bucks a pop, this is gonna be awesome. I mean, there was one kid who, man, he just could not seem to, not. And great big kid, early 20s, and to see him come out into the ring after he had already paid like $75 to me.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:44.696)
So let's
Karen (32:11.314)
He comes out and he didn't get the point. He's like, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she,
Karen (32:31.39)
Well, and again, that was kind of the time where mouthpieces weren't necessarily required. You know, there was a lot of stuff we did that, you know, because there was no head contact. There was no head contact. And again, I think going back to the helmets, you know, you see a lot more head contact when before we didn't see any. And...
Jeremy Lesniak (32:42.667)
There was a lot going on that doesn't fly now.
Karen (32:58.004)
So yeah, it's the transition of tournaments has been interesting. I would really love to ditch the poodle skirts.
But they have the creative competitions. I was actually at one where she came out in a poodle skirt.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:11.576)
Okay, what?
Jeremy Lesniak (33:18.424)
none.
Karen (33:26.154)
And it was.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:27.31)
Is this instead of a Hakama? Is this the idea that we've said, you know, we're just going to be a little more creative with that? Or is this just, we've abandoned belt and uniform entirely and now we're wearing whatever.
Karen (33:30.185)
Well...
Karen (33:34.196)
She was
She was
Karen (33:41.419)
Yeah, it was a time when they could pretty much wear whatever. That has kind of gone to the wayside, fortunately. When the movie Mask came out, a bunch of kids came out with those masks to do their competition. And I'm like, OK, you know what, guys, we got to dial in here. you know, but yeah, I pretty much drew the line of poodle skirts and
You know, I-
Jeremy Lesniak (34:10.894)
Now, was anybody wearing the poodle skirt yelling Mortal Kombat?
Karen (34:15.792)
No, fortunately. And I don't remember what the it was some kind of a almost like a I don't know, like a vintage kind of like a bebop kind of a song and that she was doing her competition to but you know, like I said, I was thank goodness they finally stopped those.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:40.064)
It sounds like somebody watched a little too much figure skating and was really jealous of that style of competition. They just said, I'm just going to do as much of that as I can.
Karen (34:43.474)
Yeah
Karen (34:48.458)
I was impressed. I think I wore one of those one time.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:58.594)
In the first place, my mind went, okay, so poodle skirt, I'm gonna wear a zoot suit.
Karen (35:05.382)
well that would have been the kid with the mask mask.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:05.752)
when I compete.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:10.07)
right.
Karen (35:13.065)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:13.688)
paint my face green. Yeah, do it up.
Karen (35:15.771)
It was actually kind of interesting because he used his watch as kind of a weapon thing. Kind of like a weird little nunchuck.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:21.015)
Okay?
I love creativity. I love bringing those martial arts philosophies and concepts out into other things, right? And for those of you out there, if you've never gone out to your tool shed or your garage and picked up a rake or a shovel and tried to implement what you've learned with a bow or any other martial arts weapon, assuming you do weapons, you should because you're far more likely to have a shovel or a rake handy than you are
just a plain stick, right? Do it with a broom. A broom is a great example too, right? But in the sense of competition, we are traditional martial artists and there is a line. It doesn't have to draw the line in the same place.
I feel like a poodle skirt is almost.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:13.998)
I feel like they should have known. Maybe you put like a poodle patch on your top or something.
Karen (36:16.841)
I guess.
Maybe if you're using it as a distraction technique, you know, I mean, I can almost guarantee, you know, if I was somebody attacking someone and they were wearing a poodle skirt, I'd be distracted. Then they'd then have the chance to take the first shot.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:23.629)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:32.654)
It does take all kinds.
Karen (36:41.0)
But interesting times. Like I said, seeing the transition from different things has kind of just been a high point.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:55.839)
We've talked about a number of the things that maybe haven't been great transitions, but what about some of the things that have been? I'm sure you've watched things happen in competition now versus then that you look and you say,
Karen (37:08.036)
definitely. my gosh. you know, like you said, the creativity is incredible and the weapons that I mean, there are weapons that, you know, that I've never seen and or I've seen them, but I didn't know how they were used. And, you know, but I've seen, you know, I mean, I judge a guy with a whip, which was very cool.
judged another one who had one of those you know i mean this was the flags with the the chain with the flags on it i don't i don't know what those are called his was really really long i mean like you know 20 foot and he is like whipping this thing around you know over our heads and well he pretty much
Jeremy Lesniak (37:57.464)
How big were your rings?
Jeremy Lesniak (38:02.638)
Was he running it overhead? Okay. was the first thing I thought as someone who often sits in a chair and goes, okay, 20 feet, 20 feet running. I'm getting hit.
Karen (38:04.554)
Yeah, it was running overhead and then he... Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, he was doing it overhead and they gather it up and then he'd like go down to the bottom and then fling it out to us and and every single judge was like with their boards. I mean, I know we're supposed to trust them, but I don't know. My trust only went that far so far. and so, you know, the the transition of weapons, you know, and again is
Jeremy Lesniak (38:26.35)
You
Karen (38:41.642)
I'll be the first to admit, again, I don't know everything. So when they first started doing the, when I became the head judge, when they first started presenting me with the weapon to check it, you know, and I'm like, okay, and the first time that happened was with a staff with a bow. And I was like, thinking to myself, boy, I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing here.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:56.59)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (39:11.434)
And so anyway, so but hey, you know, fake it. And, know, so I put it in my hands, you know, I kind of put put it in the middle to see the balance, you know, and that kind of a thing. And, know, and then we were good. And but, you know, and again, you know, the other the side judges were like. This was when they first started doing it, they're like, wow, I've never seen how to I've never seen that. It's like, glad I was here to, you know, under.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:17.614)
way you can do.
Karen (39:41.512)
so you can explain what was going on. I'm like, well, that's all fighting good, but you know, I'll be honest with you guys. I had not a clue. But.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:55.438)
One of my favorite things about ornaments is that it...
Even though there are some regional differences, there are some extreme differences between schools. And just getting to watch that, not just in the forms themselves, but just the way people operate is fascinating. The way some schools will coach their students on here's how you present your form versus others. And some of them, it's a 10 minute soliloquy on the entire lineage going back to Adam and Eve.
Karen (40:05.617)
yeah.
Karen (40:14.644)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:30.432)
And then others, they're like, hi, I'm Tim. And then they do their form.
Karen (40:36.65)
I found I do a lot of head nodding, know, especially if they're speaking, you know, Japanese or Korean or something like that. And I just know, you know, when their lips quit moving that I can nod and bow them in. And again, you know, one of the judges was like, what do say? I'm like, I have a clue. You know, it's like, but I think that was the other fun thing. And
Rick was probably the first one that just regularly has me as a head judge. Yeah, Rick Crawford. Which by the way, Mighty River Classics are coming up November 1st in Portland.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:12.344)
Rick Cropper you're talking about. Yeah, who's been on the show?
Jeremy Lesniak (41:20.679)
yes. Okay. We're recording this for those of you watching. We're recording this the end of May of 2025, but that's an annual event. if you wanna head out to the Pacific Northwest in November for a good sized tournament.
Karen (41:38.698)
Well, it's right after Halloween, so we can celebrate Halloween at the same time. The problem with Portland is you dress up for Halloween and nobody knows you're dressed up.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:43.288)
There you go.
Karen (41:52.779)
But Rick is, you know, he always has me as a head judge and puts me a lot with the kids because he knows I love him. Yeah, I know. But yeah. But, you know, being able to, he also likes it, I think, because
Jeremy Lesniak (41:53.29)
You can kind of say that about Seattle too.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:06.798)
Surprise. No surprise there to me. I'm sure you hate that.
Karen (42:21.212)
You know, he puts me a lot with new instructors or new judges, people who have not had a lot of experience judging. And, you know, I always, I always tell him, you know what? If you start off, you know, with high points, if you start off giving them high points, stay high. If you start off low, stay low. You know, don't go all over the board.
because you think you should have given them the score that I gave them. You know, just trust your judgment and it'll all work out fine. And you know, we very rarely, you know, and again, in the past, there was a lot of aggressive parents. And, but actually, you know, very rarely did we have anyone calling an arbitrator or questioning points or.
Well, except for the one guy who ran in with his video camera and I'm like, we don't have replays in tournaments. It's like, no, but yeah, he's like, yeah, exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak (43:22.783)
Yeah, this is not you're taking this way too seriously. I guess his kid was seven
and it didn't matter at all.
Karen (43:32.459)
No. But, you know, I guess that's another enjoyment I have is, you know, and it goes back to the teaching thing, you know, instructing up and coming judges, because obviously if they have a great experience or a good experience, then they'll want to do it again. You know, I mean, I've seen, you know, others who have kind of berated
Jeremy Lesniak (43:34.03)
Yep. Yep.
Karen (44:01.522)
they're side judges and you know it's it's not a good experience for them so but it's hard for them i mean i understand you know i'm you know having to call someone because they're you know calling points late you know and basically waiting for everybody else to do it and again that's a lack of confidence so you know it again it's i don't know i see it as my job to that confidence
Jeremy Lesniak (44:28.302)
And you know what makes people more confident is when you yell at them. It works really well.
Karen (44:34.01)
yeah. Yeah. yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:40.056)
You're doing a terrible job. Stop doing a terrible job. I'm to tell you that loudly and suddenly somehow that's going to work. I don't think that's how that works. At it's never worked on me.
Karen (44:43.42)
Yes.
Karen (44:48.692)
Well, choosing... Yeah, choosing words carefully, you know, the difference between, you know...
don't fail me versus make me proud is huge in a competition. It's a huge difference. you know, and even when they took last, I would, I would always sit there and I'd point out everybody sitting in the bleachers. And I'm like, you know, you see all those people out there, they don't have the courage to come in here and fight like you just did.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:03.15)
That's a big difference
Karen (45:29.002)
And you know, it's, you know, it really doesn't matter if they came in last. I always ask them, did you try your hardest? And they're like, yeah. And I said, well then you're a winner because you tried.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:44.366)
We all like to win, right? We all like to know that we've done a good job. But one of the worst positions to be in, and I bet you know a bit about this, is routinely winning, not quite being sure what to work on.
Karen (46:02.417)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:03.342)
If you're getting second or third, you've got, you've got a few things. If you're coming in last, you pretty much can work on anything, right? You just need to apply some, you just need to keep showing up and you'll get there. That was actually the beginning of my tournament experience. was, I was at the back of that line for a year before I started to figure things out. And I see, I see kids now and you know, I'm, I'm not a big fan of participation awards.
Karen (46:21.022)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (46:32.22)
No, me either.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:33.774)
Maybe, maybe something, you know, stickers, something, but not here's something that looks like the thing that the other people who won in, you know, first, second, third received. No, not that we'll give you something. Be a box of crayons. One of my favorite tournaments. They routinely give out plastic swords to all the kids. Now that carries its own chaos after the fact. I'm not saying that's necessarily the best choice.
Karen (46:58.748)
yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:01.538)
Some of you out there watching or listening to this show know which sort of it I'm talking about, but the kids have a blast. The kids don't care about first, second, third. They want the sword. They want to play with the sword. They want to go hit their friends with the sword. It's a great time. And I think it's all about setting that expectation.
Karen (47:19.676)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When I, and when I would have, when I would talk to the kids about going in tournaments, I actually would always give them one thing to work on. Maybe it's a back fist. Maybe it's a reverse punch, but every tournament they would have one thing to work on and they'd keep working on that in consecutive tournaments. Once they were scoring repeatedly with it,
Jeremy Lesniak (47:21.198)
I
Karen (47:49.309)
then we'd move on to the next technique. And, you know, and it was amazing because they found what worked for them. You know, with me, I could take a headshot. Body shots killed me. Absolutely killed me. And so I learned very quickly to cover the body. And, you know, so and, you know, and
like I said, and you know, just the obvious things. I wasn't winning at all in the beginning of my competition. And finally, my instructor came up to me and he's like, you know, you need you need to go forward. He said, you keep backing up. You need to go forward. And I'm like, I don't want to go forward. I'm to take a sidekick right in the stomach.
And he's like, yeah, but backing up isn't working for you. Well, you know, he's got a point that kind of seems obvious. If you're backing up, you're not going to win. But, know, sometimes I have to kind of point out the obvious to you because, you know, when when you're doing it yourself, you I don't know, you need someone else to take kind of take a look at how things are going and, you know, be off to the side.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:53.838)
for life in there.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:16.622)
does martial arts look like for you now?
You're refereeing, training? Are you teaching? What's going on?
Karen (49:26.66)
You know, it's unfortunate here in Southern Oregon, I actually started a personal safety program that I was in, I called it safe training, and it stood for senses, awareness, feelings, and environment. And, you know, it basically went back to what we were talking about before. The concept of the program was everything can be used as a weapon.
if you know how to use it. And so I had like bins of books and, you know, alarm clocks and, you know, just kind of everyday items. And, you know, and I was really trying to promote it in the schools. Unfortunately, here in Southern Oregon, every school gets to make their own decision. There is no, you know, district wide kind of a program.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:05.623)
is a great weapon.
Karen (50:25.962)
And then if there was a change, you know, was doing it locally here. Yeah, I was, was, yeah. And I would sit there and I'd give, you know, like a whole school auditorium presentation. And then there was a change in the teachers and the other teacher was like, well, you know, I don't want, I don't want us to be liable if the kids hurt someone.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:30.296)
You're doing a lot of work year after year to just to keep doing it.
Karen (50:54.91)
So they, 86AP program. you know, it was unfortunate because as much as I would have loved to see it, I think it's really important. I was trying to bring in internet safety, know, trying to bring in personal safety just on the basis of awareness. But unfortunately here in Southern Oregon, it's...
Jeremy Lesniak (51:20.974)
And you know, that's not just southern Oregon. That is most of the country, right? And, you we have, I talked to somebody who wasn't even in North America earlier today for an episode. And so I'm not going to speak to what things are like around the world, because I don't know. My understanding is based mostly in the US. But this is every public school all over the country. Because, and yeah, there's a liability piece. I see that.
But you know what I think it is even more? In order for them to want to do this, they first have to admit there's a problem. That there's a problem in their environment. Because why do you need a solution if there's no problem? And if they admit there's a problem, they admit that they have, if not created the problem, allowed the problem to persist. And nobody wants to be left holding that. And it's really unfortunate. One of the things that gets me really worked up is the way
Karen (52:14.021)
Exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:19.938)
kids are treated around their physical safety in public school. It is bizarre to me that somehow the rules around assault don't apply in a school.
Karen (52:34.078)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I I'm actually really glad that I'm I mean, I'm not glad I'm not teaching kids, but you know, I'm glad I'm not seeing you know, I mean what they're seeing now in the schools is horrible and It's worse than they used to be. It only happened in the school. But once you left the grounds
Jeremy Lesniak (52:35.8)
Close my mind.
Karen (53:02.566)
you know, and got to your neighborhood or your home or whatever, it was a safe haven. But with social media and everything else, and again, I'm not a fan of social media unless, you know, there's a training system that goes with it. But so many people just put phones in their kids' hands and, you know, they go for it. And so...
Jeremy Lesniak (53:24.226)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (53:29.29)
I don't know, it's hard because, yeah, like I said, I think it's really important that kids, well, at the very least, we need to teach them how to say no. I mean, before, it seemed like we were so much into the, can't speak up against an adult or you have to be polite or you gotta hug grandma.
you know, something, you know, and again, you know, kids should never be forced. I don't care if it's grandma, you know, I don't know, maybe she wears too much perfume. It's like, you know, it doesn't matter.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:08.558)
It doesn't matter the reason. The last thing we want to condition kids is that they have to accept physical contact against their will. That is a ridiculous thing to teach children at any age.
Karen (54:17.884)
Right. I think, yes. And I think another reason why we're not seeing it in the schools is we don't have the proper training programs. I mean, a lot of the things that people are taught to do are pretty much worthless in, you an environment. mean, you know, I was training flight crews for American Airlines. which, wow, that was a lot of fun.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:43.598)
Mmm.
Karen (54:47.274)
and for that was when, right after, you know, nine 11 and our government put in the mandatory training for flight crews, but they didn't fund it. And so anyway, but you know, it was going to all of all over the country. they had a mock up of a, of an airplane that a film company let us use. Kind of just was like the interior of a plane.
And so we actually got to train in their environment. And so all of sudden the pilot started showing up. And so I was talking to one of the head guy. And he said, yeah, he said, well, we've been hearing about this, so we thought we'd come and check it out. And I said, well, you guys should join us. And they get, we don't need to. We got guns.
And I'm like, okay. I said, I would be really interested to see what they've trained you to do. And I said, let's go to the front of the plane here and, you know, go into the cockpit area. And I said, okay, so there you are sitting down and you're strapped in, in your harness and everything. And, you know, all of a sudden, you know, terrorists, you know, they're banging on the door, you know, passengers are screaming.
Chaos is going so what happened? What do you do? And he's like well the first thing I do is I take my gun and I know I said no no let's start from the very very basics I said First you have to get out of your harness, right? He's like oh, yeah, he says got to get out of my harness I got to release those and he said and then I got to get I got to get the cuz the gun and the
the ammo is kept in two different places. And he says, so I gotta get the lock boxes. He has a key ring that had like 25 keys on it. Nothing is marked, nothing is color coded. And he's like, you know, so I gotta get my keys and I gotta get the ammo out of the lock box. And then I gotta get the gun out of the lock box. I said, okay, great. So we're finally at the place where.
Karen (57:09.842)
you can actually use the weapon. What's that? And so, yeah. And I said, so at this point, because it's taken so long, they probably crashed through the door. And I said, so what are you going to do? He says, I'm going to turn around in my seat and I'm going to shoot. And he's like extending his arm. And I said, OK, let me show you something about this. And I just took the gun away from him.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:10.062)
Three minutes later.
Three minutes later.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:35.832)
towards the passenger compartment with all the people seated.
Karen (57:39.933)
Right. And I said, you know, so and he has his arms fully extended. So I took the gun out of his hand very quickly and I said, OK, the first thing you want to do is you want to keep your elbows in, keep the gun tucked to you. And that way the guy can't take it away from you. And I said, and the reality is, do you really think the first person through that door is going to be the terrorist? He's like, well, who else would it be? I said, your flight crew.
I said, you know, they're already holding a hostage. And so sure enough, we changed up all of their training and we did it with a flight crew. You know, we had the terrorists banging on the doors and made it very realistic. and we taught the flight crews that the minute you come in, you're in a situation like that, the minute you go through the door, you climb into the lap of the copilot.
get out of the way because you know what? He's gonna wanna shoot you. And so, know, again, it seems like whatever program the government set up for the pilots was pretty worthless for them. And after that, then we ended up having like all of the pilots. Yeah, this guy's like, you know, we all gotta go to these classes. So it was great. And...
You know, and I still do it. I still tell the flight crews, you know, that I'm a fourth degree black belt and if they need assistance, you know, they know where I'm sitting. And, you know, I think it's just something again, as martial artists, you know, we should do, you know, and you don't want to announce it to the whole plane, but.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:29.32)
My feelings on social media aren't far off of yours, but one of the things that I have enjoyed recently is the diversity of content on TikTok. And I bring that up because one of the categories of content that I have not seen nearly this much on up until last year or two are the problems occurring on flights at however many thousands of feet.
and things that start really small that get really big. People that obviously people causing problems that something going on in their lives, right? I don't want to gloss over that, problems are different when you can't just walk away. And I find that whole body of implementation of what so many of us train to be so fascinating because
Karen (01:00:14.975)
Mm-hmm.
Karen (01:00:25.278)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:26.742)
It's tight. There are lots of people around. In fact, there's probably no situation where you have a higher density of of bystanders than on a plane.
Karen (01:00:36.414)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Yeah, and usually it just takes one person and then everybody else will jump in the fray You know, but Really never really understood how you can have like 200 people on a flight and maybe two or three terrorists and you know, this is I mean, I realize you don't want to get shot but hey, you know the alternative is quite a bit worse and
You know, but you know, I guess I see people more aware. You know, but then again, I see people who are like, wow, where have you been? I mean, I was in Vegas, a guy came and he had just come from overseas. He probably had 15 pieces of luggage and he piled it all in the center and then he walked away to go get coffee.
And it didn't take more than probably 10 seconds before airport security was there, know, carted everything off. Here comes this guy. He's like, where's all my stuff? And I said, they're probably blowing it up in the parking lot. I am like, who does this? You know, I mean.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:00.48)
All the rules around flying are just so funny to me. The idea that we've been conditioned that there's a, nobody ever steals anybody's luggage, but we don't leave it alone because we don't want to be labeled as having a bomb. The psychology around everything with flight is fascinating.
Karen (01:02:05.063)
it's...
Karen (01:02:19.528)
Right. Or, or.
answering that just amazingly stupid question of did anyone put anything in your bag that you're not aware of?
Okay, let's kind of review that question. Because if I'm not aware of it, how am I going to know that somebody put something in my bag? It's like, know, but I actually, interestingly enough, ended up being pulled out because and I don't know what it was on my bag, but they said it registered as bomb residue. You know, it's funny you have no friends then.
No, no friends. They all of I was at a karate tournament every single one of them just
And I'm like, even the guy, he's like, wow, apparently you have no friends in this group. I said, apparently not if I have bomb residue on my back.
Karen (01:03:23.24)
But yeah, I don't know what it was all of it, but something did.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:03:30.126)
Are there any resources that you put out that are available publicly from either, you know, training the flight crews or the safety program that you were doing? I would imagine there are people watching or listening that would find that interesting if it's out there anywhere.
Karen (01:03:41.162)
Bye!
Karen (01:03:45.621)
Well, for the flight crews, was set up through the Chuck Norris system, through the World Black Belt Federation. And we all had to be certified to become an instructor through that program. I guess more as a personal level.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:03:51.854)
Okay.
Karen (01:04:07.664)
you know, I, you know, so far as resources, you know, again, I'm not really doing that on social media anymore. When I was, you know, I had a ton of them, but they're, they're really more my, you know, I don't know. I guess I, I mean, I, I looked to other people, but I really had more of my ideas on how to do things. most of my classes were
you know, I mean, I tried to connect. It's kind of like, you know, and you got to know the age groups. When I was doing the ones in the schools, I had teenagers. Teenagers are really interesting group of kids, you know, because they always want to try and, you know, just mess with you. And so I saw these, you know, three kids and you could see them nudging each other. And finally, they got this one kid to speak up and he raised his hand and he's like,
Jeremy Lesniak (01:04:48.215)
You're hard.
Karen (01:05:02.64)
I had my table with all the different things to defend yourselves and he's like, so do know any ninja stuff?
And I said, well, I said, I've never been trained as a ninja. I said, but I can make myself disappear. I said, come on down. So I brought him down, you know, and he's like, you know, nudging all of his buddies like, you know, and so he stood in front of me. I said, you ready? He's like, yeah. And I just took a jacket off table and I threw it over his head. I said, can you see me? That was so cool.
you know so what started as we're gonna mess with her kind of a thing ended up you know where they were just like wow what else can you teach us and yeah yeah and
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:51.948)
You got through to them. That's really, that's, and I think that's such an important piece. Right? When someone acts like that, they're, to me, they're asking. They're saying, I want to know, but I'm too afraid to ask in a genuine way. So I need to do it in a way that feels a little bit safer, but you found a way. That's awesome.
Karen (01:06:07.23)
Right, right.
Karen (01:06:14.664)
Yeah, I always had a, for the internet portion, the internet safety, I always had a, I had one of those really ugly old men masks, you know, with this graying red hair. And I put them like on like on a pole and you have like a flannel shirt, you know, kind of a thing. And I'd go up to, you know, like the girls and I'm like, I'm a 16 year old surfer in Australia.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:32.13)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:45.806)
That's fantastic.
Karen (01:06:45.808)
And they would just be, and I said, it just proves that you never know who you're talking to. And so, but yeah, you have to do a lot of impact things, I think, to kind of get your point across.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:59.064)
think you're right. If people want to get a hold of you, how would they do that? there anything you can share? Okay.
Karen (01:07:03.818)
Um, they can text me, they can text me, they can call me. Um, my number is 530-426-5213. And, uh, yeah, that's the best way. so.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:07:17.166)
There you go. All right.
This is this has been great. We probably could have scheduled a second hour with the material We just started to open up in the last 10 minutes But maybe maybe we have you back and we focus a little more specifically on some of those things But I do I do appreciate your time. I'm gonna have you close us up here in just a moment for the audience There's some important stuff here. And if you are teaching these sorts of things, I hope Maybe you you give the portions of this episode
Karen (01:07:28.059)
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:07:50.946)
a re-listen because I teach this stuff and Karen gave me things to think about. Thank you. appreciate that. To all of you out there also, don't forget whistlekickmarshortsradio.com. Sign up for the newsletter. Never miss an episode. We give you bonus content, all sorts of behind the scenes stuff and graphics and whatever to get more out of these episodes. Thank you for doing that. Karen, I'm to have you close this up. What is it you want the audience to think about or do or whatever?
What are your, how do you want to close? I'll just close it that way.
Karen (01:08:22.63)
It is, it's never too late. It is never too late to learn martial arts. It doesn't matter your physical abilities, your age, your weight. You know, I mean, it doesn't matter. The confidence that they will gain from it overrides that initial fear. And, you know, and I always tell people, you know,
Don't just go to one school, go to several schools. Sit in and watch the class. Because everybody's like, you what's the best style? And I'm like, there is none. You know, they all have their positives. And so just go to different schools. If you like the way their instructors are teaching, then that's the school for you. It doesn't matter what the style is. But my thing, you know, I had
a family that adopted nothing but physically challenged children. And it was the greatest experience of my life. And these children learned that their disabilities were not disabilities, that they could do just as well. And it taught the able-bodied children a lot, and even the adults. And so, yeah, I would like people to take away that, you know,
If you're interested in doing the martial arts or if you're interested in doing anything in life, you know, just, you know, God, I hate to say this cliche, but just do it. It's like because really, you know, if you're in the right environment and you're in the right circle, people will support you and you're going to gain that confidence that you need.