Episode 1125 - Empowering Women Through Martial Arts
In this episode, Andrew is joined by Master Diane Ortenzio-Cooling and Sensei Mary Dee Holmes, both directors of the Partnership of Women Martial Artists as well as longtime friend of the show, Kellie Thomas, who is hosting this year’s seminar in Burlington VT.
Empowering Women Through Martial Arts - Episode 1125
SUMMARY
In this conversation, Andrew Adams is joined by the two directors of the Partnership of Women Martial Artists and Kellie Thomas; host of this years annual training event, and they discuss the importance of female representation in martial arts, upcoming events, and personal updates on teaching and training. The dialogue highlights the significance of community engagement and the efforts to improve communication within martial arts organizations. This conversation explores the empowerment of women through martial arts, highlighting the experiences that female martial artists face. They discuss the challenges faced by women in martial arts, the importance of community and support, and the impact of female instructors. The conversation also covers the annual symposium for women martial artists, emphasizing the need for networking and sharing knowledge among women in the field.
TAKEAWAYS
It's important to have female representation in martial arts.
The upcoming symposium is expected to be the largest yet.
Kellie is hosting the symposium this year in Burlington, VT.
Teaching experiences can vary greatly in attendance.
Community involvement is key to martial arts growth.
The organization started in a living room to support women in martial arts.
Martial arts can significantly boost self-confidence and personal growth.
Women in martial arts often face unique challenges compared to their male counterparts.
Networking among female martial artists fosters community and support.
The symposium allows women to share their experiences and knowledge.
Having female instructors increases female participation in martial arts classes.
The partnership of women martial artists promotes inclusivity and diversity in training.
Events like the symposium empower women to prioritize their martial arts journey.
Celebrating each other's achievements is crucial in the martial arts community.
Future events will continue to focus on empowering women in martial arts.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:29 Empowering Women Through Martial Arts
05:15 The Partnership of Women Martial Artists
10:34 Getting Involved
27:22 Future Symposiums
To connect:
Partnership of Women Martial Artists
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Andrew Adams (20:29.119)
Welcome, you're listening or watching to another episode of Whistlekick martial arts radio. And today I'm very excited to be joined by three wonderful female martial artists. We've got Diane Ortenzio-Kuhling. Hi, Diane.
We've got Mary D Holmes.
and longtime friend of the show, Kellie Thomas.
So I'm excited to get into a chat about empowering women through martial arts. But before we get there, just in case we have any new listeners, I want to make sure to direct you to whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com where you can find every episode that we've ever done. are over 1100 podcast episodes at this point. All of those episodes you can find there. You can find show notes, can find transcripts, you can find photos.
You can also sign up for our exclusive newsletter so you don't miss out on any episode. But you can also go to whistlekick.com to find out about all of the things that we do, whether it's attending one of the events that we host around the country. Maybe you want to purchase some apparel. Maybe you want to purchase some sparring gear or buy a book. All of that stuff you can find at whistlekick.com. Ladies, thank you all so much for being here.
Andrew Adams (21:53.834)
I'm an, I want to start off by talking about what our topic is our topic, empowering women through martial arts. Now, Kelly, you've been on the show a number of times, so I'm not going to go to you first because people would expect that Diane and Mary, you guys are here in Vermont, right now. and there's an event happening, which we'll talk about later, but your organization is all about women in martial arts.
And I would like to know from Mary, we'll start actually Diane, we'll start with you. This organization, what is it all about and how did it come to be?
Diane And Mary (22:38.098)
Well, it started in my living room about eight years ago. We've been talking about ways to get more women involved in martial arts and also to support women who are already in martial arts because we are a minority. Men have always had most of take up most of the space in martial arts schools. When we are there,
these days men are very encouraging. The instructors are encouraging, but that isn't always the way it was. So we talked about it, complained about the situation and Dee finally looked at me and said, you're going to, you're to do something about it or not. You're going to keep talking about it or you're to do something. So after that, it's like, okay, how do we want to put this together and get people interested in it?
We want to encourage, it's a time for women to get to know other women who are also training. Maybe not in your immediate vicinity, maybe from across the country, but we're out there. We can encourage each other. We can give each other tips. And it's also a time for people to, for women who have been training for many years to instruct.
We're usually not the featured people at gatherings or seminars. So we're making our own way with that. And that's pretty much how it came to be.
Andrew Adams (24:17.301)
Hmm. And Diane, for you as a female martial artist, what has martial arts brought to you and how has it bettered your life in a way that maybe something else hasn't?
Diane And Mary (24:32.018)
I would not have gone as far in my career without the self-confidence that martial arts gave me. I would not be confident to travel like I do. I simply wouldn't have done it because I was not the type of person that would even travel outside of my own town.
Andrew Adams (24:47.233)
Hmm.
Diane And Mary (25:04.346)
And it gave me the courage to go out there and step out, think outside the box and be more outgoing than I was.
Andrew Adams (25:18.101)
Hmm. Yeah. And how about you yourself, Mary? I mean, Diane, sorry.
Diane And Mary (25:26.066)
But just like on.
Diane And Mary (25:30.322)
Are talking to Diane? Are you asking you a question? Oh, okay. Just like Diane was saying, most of, I know when I was coming up in training, I was pretty much the only female on the floor. So it was all men instructors, there was men students. So it was pretty much, I was by myself. So this gave me an opportunity to meet other women in the martial arts world.
Andrew Adams (25:31.745)
Mary, I'd like to hear from you.
Diane And Mary (26:00.462)
and by networking and then fellowshipping you get up, have, now you're broadening your relationship and your friendship of people all over, females all over the world that has the similar issues that you did, that I did when I was coming up in the dojo back in the day.
Andrew Adams (26:19.829)
Yeah. Now, Kelly, for you, no, go ahead, Mary, go ahead.
Diane And Mary (26:21.114)
And also, bye.
I was just saying, you know, and then by Martial Arts, just gave me the, like, again, the confidence of doing things, stepping out of my comfort zone, traveling. Even me talking on this microphone, you know, on this podcast, it just giving you a self-confident self-worth that, yes, all the issues you put yourself in, you know, into this style, into martial arts. It's great to share and
your belief and you don't get, you know, not knocked down, but you have, you're on the same wavelength of other people, other women in this style.
Andrew Adams (27:02.401)
And Kelly, what does it meant for you? And truth be told, I know the answer because I've listened to your episode, but there may be people that haven't, but what has training martial arts meant for you as a woman?
Kellie Thomas (27:18.286)
Well, I started as a girl and that was, you know, a big turning point in my life. I had a very low self-esteem, you know, was very self-conscious, didn't like myself very much because I wasn't like...
all the other girls that were in school, you know, you kind of felt like the odd person out. It's sort of the same story that you hear from anybody who starts in a martial art. You just felt like the odd duck. but the martial arts, when I first started, I felt like I belonged somewhere. You know, the fact that I was a strong girl, it was okay. It wasn't a weird thing. And it was celebrated. And so I finally felt good at something.
And then that finally kind of made me feel good about myself through that journey. no matter what, I've had stops and starts and stops and starts, but it's always been there and it's always been a part of my life. And I certainly would not be the same person I am today if it wasn't for the martial arts.
And as a woman, it's really, it's wonderful to see how many women are becoming involved and are involved now and are supportive of one another because there was a time, and I think as a woman, I can say this, sometimes women are horrible. But in the martial arts, I found that we now celebrate each other and
you know, support each other and help each other get stronger and not knock each other down. Which, you know, you end up seeing outside in the world, you know, regardless of what sex you are, right? Somebody's always trying to step on somebody else's fingers and head to get, you know, get that one rung higher than you. But it's an amazing thing, you you walk in and with a bunch of women and it just, it feels like home.
Andrew Adams (29:37.763)
So Diane, I'm going to ask a question here that I'm curious to know, and I think our audience might as well. You are a high ranking female in the martial arts. When you started training or in your life of training, was there a female martial artist that helped guide you or were you mainly training with men?
Diane And Mary (30:07.064)
I mainly trained with men. There were other women, but their participation varied because if you are married, it's usually the woman that has to step away from classes to do the caretaking at home. You're taking care of the kids and doing everything and that calls you away because mostly it's your job. So.
Andrew Adams (30:09.419)
Okay.
Diane And Mary (30:35.65)
Most of the time it was me and the guys. It was hard. And this year is my 47th year of training. And in the early years there.
Andrew Adams (30:39.884)
Yep. Yep.
Kellie Thomas (30:48.174)
Mmm.
Diane And Mary (30:55.118)
You had to make the grade just like the men did, or they didn't take you seriously. So either you stepped up and did what you needed to do and kept pace with them, or they would make sure you were not, they would grind you down until you were gone because they only wanted serious people. So I'm glad to see a lot of that has changed.
Andrew Adams (31:16.802)
And Mary, how about yourself? Was it the same for you going up through the ranks? there a female helping lead your classes as it, when you were a student or was it like Diane where it was strictly men?
Diane And Mary (31:31.352)
It's just like Diane. It was strictly men. Even the children were boys. So you as a female, you know, being there with all the gentlemen and the boys, you had to be either at their level or even try to get better because you couldn't survive if you didn't. You know, many times we, you know, when we do our, when we're sparring or fighting, yeah, I'm fighting against a man.
you know, or a boy. So yes, it made me stronger. It made you look at the world differently. And like I said, it made me it's made me where I am today as a whole.
Andrew Adams (32:15.17)
Yeah. Now, Kelly, again, I know the answer to the question, but our audience might not. Same question for you. And then we're going to flip it a little bit, but go ahead.
Kellie Thomas (32:28.974)
I was very fortunate to have a female instructor. There was a husband and wife team and Laurie Dion was, she did a lot for the women martial artists in Vermont. She was high ranking. She was definitely put through the paces because as you know, she was the highest ranking master's wife.
And so not only did she have to like prove that she, you know, could do it being a woman, she had to prove that she wasn't just being given her rank or wasn't being easier on her because she happened to be, you know, the master's wife. So she had to work extremely hard to be taken, you know, seriously. And, you know, even though, you know, she was there, she'd be the only one.
You know, there'd be a master's meeting and she'd be the only female there, you know, or, you know, one of two, you know, so was still, and, you know, she, she couldn't back down. didn't matter what was going on. You, like you'd see, you you had to keep pace and, know, she taught me, had to do the same thing, you know, to keep pace, but at least there was somebody else there.
you know, explaining, look, you gotta do it. If you want them to take you seriously, this is what you have to do. But she did, you know, she did set the, open the gates so that it could happen.
Andrew Adams (33:58.167)
Sure.
Andrew Adams (34:07.274)
And with your instructor, Kelly, having been one of your instructors, having been female, did you have, do you feel like you had a slightly higher percentage of girls or women in those classes?
Kellie Thomas (34:23.05)
Yes, we definitely did. It was like, because she was really the only one of the few women instructors in the area. And so it just it speaks differently when there's a woman in the class and doing like most of the teaching. You know, it just it it's not as scary, I guess. You know,
Andrew Adams (34:41.122)
Mm-hmm.
Kellie Thomas (34:52.552)
and it certainly helped bring more women into our school. But like that's where...
Andrew Adams (34:59.989)
and s-
No, go ahead, go ahead.
Kellie Thomas (35:05.882)
but it wasn't always a supportive environment with, you know, it, took a lot because it was so odd to have a woman black belt or whatever. There was a lot of, know, well, how did you get that? And, you know, it wasn't always as supportive.
which is what I've seen be different now.
Andrew Adams (35:30.23)
Yeah. So now let's go the other direction. So Diane, I'll go back to you in the classes now that you are teaching generally, are you finding that you are having more female participation than when you were a student? Because you yourself are female. Yeah.
Diane And Mary (35:48.914)
Absolutely.
Absolutely. There's just something, there's a...
It's trust by the students and a comfort level that there's somebody there that understands where they're coming from, understands when they have to step away because they have to take care of the kids or somebody in the family. So it's a different vibe altogether. And a lot more women are more comfortable now than I think at any other time to be able to do it.
Andrew Adams (36:26.786)
And Mary, do you think part of that is because there is a female in front of the class?
Diane And Mary (36:36.53)
I would say yes, because I know most of the kids classes is more girls than boys. So it has flip-flop. Now there's more girls in the karate class that are joining than the boys are. And also it just gives the parents a comfort that there is both a male and female on the floor. So that it's like a safety factor.
So most of the parents now are feeling more comfortable. It's okay that I can go take that half an hour, that 45 minutes to go get a cup of coffee because there's two people, a male and a female. that it's, like I said, it's a comfort zone for the parents.
Andrew Adams (37:19.88)
And, and Kelly, I know from your teaching and knowing a bunch of your students, I know that you have more females in your class than your typical school. and anecdotally, I don't have any scientific evidence for this, but I, Kelly, I know you and I have talked about it that, you know, anecdotally, I have found that when there is a strong female leader in your school,
your school will typically be able to attract more female martial artists, which is why I'm really excited to hear about the event that Kelly, you are hosting that I know it moves around every year. But Diane, this the partnership of women martial artists that you have created this this event that Kelly, you're hosting. But I'd love for you to talk a little bit about the symposium itself.
And so Diane, we'll go to you and Mary, because you guys are the chair people for that organization. And then Kelly, we'll talk a little bit about what brought it to Vermont.
Diane And Mary (38:29.01)
well, we call it a partnership because we don't want to be for it to be perceived that it's just two people being the instructors and doing everything. We want to, we've been inviting many different people. Anybody can apply to be an instructor at one of our events. and.
give us some options on what they'd like to present. And it's more of a sharing. We enjoy the different points of view. We all have different backgrounds and different arts that we do. And the sharing and learning has been wonderful. We can listen to someone else. It might be the exact same art. It might be a little bit different art.
Andrew Adams (39:05.026)
Mmm.
Diane And Mary (39:27.676)
but they may explain to the attendees a concept and it may be a better explanation. I have no problem taking somebody else's explanation if it's better than mine. And it's better, it's a different way of explaining and getting the point across. So no matter what we do, no matter who is presenting, it's like, wow, never thought of that before. It's a presentation of different perspectives and we get a lot out of it. It's been fun.
Kellie Thomas (39:39.192)
Thanks.
Andrew Adams (39:40.642)
You
Andrew Adams (39:58.093)
Hmm. And Mary Hub, go ahead.
Diane And Mary (39:59.282)
And being, I'm sorry, I was just gonna say, I do this for me too, because I don't care how far you've been in martial arts, you wanna hear different ways and different things to do and a different way to go after the same problem. So I get excited because I learn every time we have one of these.
Andrew Adams (40:21.546)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now, Mary, it's held every year. How long has it been going on for and what does it bring for you? What do you take away from hosting this every year?
Diane And Mary (40:35.282)
Um, well, we started in 2019. That was our very first one. And then even over COVID, we did a zoom call. Um, so, I mean, we reached out to, I don't know, 30 ladies signed in on the zoom call. Um, but each year it's getting bigger and bigger, um, more attending, more, I get out of it. You can throw a punch, but another person can see it different punch than what, what you have thrown.
And everybody has a passion. You know, that's why we call it, you know, partnership of women's martial art is it's not just one style. It's not just not one kick. It is a passion that a woman that you bring to the table and you want to share your passion with the other ladies. So again, it's like networking, it's fellowshiping. Whatever you bring, it gives you a new knowledge of
of that art. You know, even though there's several different types of martial arts from like Taekwondo, Isshin-ru, all the different styles, and there's one punch, but there's a different feeling that everybody gets from it when somebody explains their vision of that punch, or that kick, or that block.
Andrew Adams (41:57.855)
Awesome. And Kelly, I know that you attended last year. I heard it was in Ontario. Was that your first time attending? It was my first question.
Kellie Thomas (42:08.298)
It was. It was.
Andrew Adams (42:09.378)
Okay. And then what made you decide to, to host the event yourself in Vermont? Because, and the reason I ask, I know how much work it is to host an event. You've been to Marshall summit for a number of years now. It's a lot of work. What made you decide to say, I want to take this on and do it and bring it to Vermont.
Kellie Thomas (42:36.782)
Well, I think what happened was a couple of, it would have been two years ago now, the partnership of women martial artists just popped up in my Facebook feed. And I was very excited to see that. so I, you know, I looked into it and then there was a, I don't remember where it was, but there was a place to apply to be an instructor.
So I did all that and did the resume and everything. then I was like, you know, could host some, sure, great. I'll fill that out too while I'm sitting here. So I kind of filled it all out at once without even really knowing what I was getting into. And then that was a year. And I guess the topics that I was thinking about teaching, they had kind of already covered. And so...
Dee and Diane were like, you we really like the topics, we'd like to have you, but it's not gonna fit for this year. Would you do it next year? And I said, sure, you know. And I wasn't able to go to attend and I was just like, oh, you know, I probably won't hear from them again. And then lo and behold, all of I was like, hey, did you still wanna do this? I was like, yes. And I'm like, called the, you know, I talked to some of my women instructors and students and said,
Hey, who wants to go to Ontario? So, and it was already kind of decided, I think that Vermont was gonna be, you we were gonna host it. And I was like, okay, we really need to get a bunch of us there to figure out what it is that I just decided that we were gonna be doing the next time. So, but just reading the information on the website and everything else, it just really called me and
You know, and Jess is an amazing, because, you know, we've had many conversations about, you know, trying to empower women in the martial arts and how no matter how wonderful a male instructor is, they just they can't understand everything. You know, you know, I met, you know, the dreaded white pants once a month issue, you know, that that a guy has no idea has never had to deal with that before in their life. And
Andrew Adams (44:50.676)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Kellie Thomas (44:58.574)
you know, just simple things, you know, like that and how our bodies move versus how a male's body moves and women are attacked differently than men are attacked. And, you know, but to be able to go to a symposium with all other women who, you know, we've all, we're all different, we're all from different paths, but there are some things that are very similar.
and to just feel that energy of, know, hey, we're all women. We have stuck with this. You know, it's still very much a you know, men's club kind of thing. You you hear that a lot. It's not as bad as it used to be, but, you know, and to be with all of these women. And it was just so amazing and so empowering to like look and
you know, see all these high ranking women in their martial arts, because again, you don't see that many high ranking women when you're just looking at, you know, a little state like Vermont and to just know that, you know, with it being across the country, how many women are out there and how many women are fighting the same fight you are. And so I was absolutely thrilled.
Andrew Adams (46:19.843)
Hmm.
Kellie Thomas (46:25.714)
and was very excited to have them come to Vermont, knowing that I don't think that many women in this area have ever even had the opportunity to do that because we're so in such a small communities that there isn't a lot of opportunities to network and reach out and find other women martial artists. So hopefully we'll get a good turnout.
Andrew Adams (46:53.737)
Excellent. as to be clear with the audience, we're recording this the day before the event happens. So by the time you're hearing this, it will have already happened. I know you guys had an amazing time or you, you will, but Diane, if people want to get information on not necessarily the event in Vermont, because it will have already happened, but if they want to get information on the partnership,
Kellie Thomas (47:07.534)
Absolutely, it was great.
Diane And Mary (47:10.002)
Thank
Andrew Adams (47:22.111)
of women martial arts. Where can they go and how can they get in touch?
Diane And Mary (47:26.962)
We have both a Facebook page and a website, and the website address is the p-o-w-m-a dot org. And we keep that, there'll be a lag right now because we're gonna be, we're gonna be tired after this event and we probably won't update it for a while until we start getting ready for next year. But you can look and see pictures from all of our past.
events and the different locations. We've had it in Texas, Florida, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Ontario, the location changes every year. That came about simply because people offered their location to host and it's like, well, we can travel. That works for us.
Andrew Adams (48:20.963)
Sure, sure.
Diane And Mary (48:23.068)
But it also gives people an opportunity to come to this that maybe they can't travel right now. So it's local to them. it turns out well that way for us. But yeah, they can stop by our website and read up about what we do and when the next one's gonna be.
Andrew Adams (48:43.711)
Excellent. And Mary, last year was in Ontario. Diane mentioned some of the other places it's been. People aren't going to necessarily be able to get to Vermont because this will come out after, but where is it going to be next year? Have you figured that out the next couple of years? So maybe people can start planning now.
Diane And Mary (49:00.956)
Well, that is also on our website.
Andrew Adams (49:01.283)
Or I was gonna say maybe it's a secret, I don't know.
Diane And Mary (49:05.136)
No, no, no, it's not a secret because we want people to start planning, booking their checking out their airfare and, you know, so you can see how much things are going to cost. But no, we have, I guess the next three years, we have kind of etched out that people have put in a request to host it. And you can do that right off of the web page. But next year, we're looking, Diane's going to host it out in Nevada, Reno. So.
Kellie Thomas (49:30.957)
Yay!
Diane And Mary (49:33.756)
We're looking at the month that we're trying to do, you to try to coordinate with the weather and the holidays. So we're working on that. So we should have something together probably within about 90 days or something once we get done with this symposium. And then after that, I think we have the next two years is Philadelphia. then with the Washington DC area. So, yes.
Andrew Adams (49:41.101)
Sure, sure.
Andrew Adams (50:04.365)
Kelly, is there anything that you want to throw out to our audience that we didn't talk about that you want to get about the event?
Kellie Thomas (50:16.75)
Definitely look it up. You I mean, you might have to travel, but it's an experience like none other. And just, is worth your time. It is worth making yourself a priority to do something like this, because that's another thing that a lot of times women don't do. Make yourself a priority, put yourself first.
and go have vacation with other women martial artists and have fun.
Andrew Adams (50:55.96)
Do it.
Diane And Mary (50:56.784)
Like make it a girls trip, a martial arts girls trip. Yes.
Kellie Thomas (50:59.03)
Get it? Yes.
Andrew Adams (51:01.217)
Love it. Well, I want to thank all three of you so much for coming on. I wish you the best this weekend starting tomorrow is when the event is starting and I just know that it's going to go so great and everyone is going to have a great time because how could they not with at a minimum the three of you guys.
Diane And Mary (51:20.21)
Thank you.