Episode 561 - Is Learning Martial Arts History Beneficial to Training?
In this episode, Jeremy and co-host Andrew Adams talk about whether Learning Martial Arts History Beneficial to Training.
Children Training with Adults - Episode 559
Learning the history of the martial arts you are training in doesn't help you punch or kick. But what happens with your mindset when you learn its history and go in-depth in your training? Does it make a difference? In this episode, Jeremy and co-host Andrew Adams talk about whether Learning Martial Arts History Beneficial to Training.
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's happening everybody? Welcome! This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 561 and today, Andrew and I are going to discuss and hopefully answer the question: is learning martial arts history beneficial? The training and as I just said I'm joined here today by Andrew Adams. I'm Jeremy Lesniak and what we do as well, we are bringing you another episode of Martial Arts Radio and why? Because we love martial arts, we love traditional martial arts, so that's why we do what we do. That's why everybody here in whistlekick does what they do. There's some terrible grammar for you and if you want to see all the things that we do, go to whistlekick.com. You can find everything over there from links to the various projects we've got going on, some of our friends' content that we make, as well as our store and if you check out the store you can find a bunch of stuff here something grabs your... use the code PODCAST15 and saves you 15%. Help, support the show. Now, if you want to check out the website for this podcast whistlekickmartialartsradio.com is the place to go. We bring you 2 episodes every week. All under the heading of connecting and educating and entertaining martial artists throughout the world. We bring you guest interviews; in topic conversations and we really try to mix it up. We try to give you stuff that makes you go... And if you've got a question or subject or guest to suggest on, don't be afraid to reach out. Best way is to email me jeremy@whistlekick.com. This is the channel that is going to be a video. That's right, this is a video episode. I can't read my notes without you knowing. I can't just sit here with the notes in front of my face. This is where we need something like a teleprompter or something but you know what we're on a shoestring budget with the shows and if you want to help us out, there you go. What can you do? Well, you can share up. So that you can leave reviews, you can follow us on social media, you can write in, you can comment on things or you can support the patreon.com/whistlekick as little as 2 Bucks a month. We're going to throw you additional content in fact, I would suggest I'd even make the argument that we give you more than you give us because that's the goal. We're trying to give you so much value and ego. This is a no brainer.
Well today, Andrew, we've got a pretty intense question here. This is a question that may or going to ruffle feathers but I suspect people have pretty strong opinions on it. Regardless, I was learning the history of your martial art, your specific school and or style, etc. Does it have an impact on your training or effective utilization of the material in the art?
Andrew Adams:
That is the question. I mean we could make this podcast really short and say yes or no and then be done with it but I think we should probably double a little deeper.
Jeremy Lesniak:
One of us can say yes, the other can say no and then we can just fade to the outro and everybody will be really mad.
Andrew Adams:
I think on a surface level, I study currently, I study in a short real karate. Started by [00:03:16-00:03:17]. On a surface level, knowing that he was born in 1870 and he died in 1945, that does not help me punch or kick.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, it does not. And anybody would suggest otherwise I don't know how you get there.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, I don't…
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm not going to say you're wrong, I just, I don't see it.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, you'd have to, you have to spend a long time. Trying to connect those dots because I don't see that happening so I would say on the surface level knowing some of this history and some of its dates, right? When people died or who the founder of your school was. On the surface level, I don't think that necessarily helps but I think when you start looking more in depth within your training, I think it absolutely can make a difference.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I agree. Now, I'm going to take what is going to seem like a complete hard left turn as I go philosophical because this is what I do right? like I put weird spins on things but this is how my brain works on this. We've heard on the show a few times recently, given that if we think of basics as words, forms could be like a poem or story and we start to think of martial arts and the styles that you learn as languages then I think it becomes maybe, not easy but at least easier to start to see how the history can have an impact. Anybody who studies language, knows that language evolves and we know that languages don't just spontaneously pop up they derive from other languages and new languages might combine multiple other languages. It’s starting to sound familiar. This is how we describe martial arts in their origination. And the more we understand about where those languages aka martial arts come from, the more we can make some under educated guesses or maybe, even really learn some solid information about why this word didn't make it from this language to this language A. K. Y. Why was that technique or that form left out as we come to understand the founder of the style in the initial pioneers that the students because anybody who suggests, I will draw hard lines in you, anybody who suggests that the instructor, who founded that style, did not have input from their students because who are they training on, who they beat the hub to see if it works. Are your students. And who they had available to them and what they were standing good at? Is going to have impacted.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean even if it goes through today. Every instructor that teaches today is partially taught by their students. So why would it not be the case? 150 years ago.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Exactly, exactly. Now, when we go back far enough, we can see that martial arts seem to be more simplistic. When I look at arts and I'll confess I am not a martial arts scholar, I am not any of the people who appeared on the show that really dig into it, I'm not. Just [00:06:32-00:06:32] but look I'm not these folks to really dig and understand the history. And Andrew, I know you appreciate history but I don't think you're digging through old books to uncover these facts.
Andrew Adams:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, so full disclosure. you know that's not where we are and I think that actually is better for the conversation. Because I love history, I enjoy history. I'll watch the history channel, watch old movies, I like learning about the past but that's not what I love the most about martial arts and I'm not someone who's going to sit down and read through martial arts history books. I'm not you know; I've got a bunch of books on my bookshelf to relate to martial arts. I'm not the type of person to reread some 3, 4,12 times to get every little nugget of information. That's not me. Is that you?
Andrew Adams:
No, not me either, okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So that's not either of us then you know, I think we're probably pretty representative of most people and so, the question is if I go back, if I understood, if I sit down. Let's say with my instructor which I've done with most of them, and say “tell me your history”. Does that inform me as their students? If I go back and I read a book on you know, what one of my original instructors their style was issued, if I go back in, I dig up everything I can on [00:07:58-00:08:01] does that make me a better practitioner? And I think the best answer is it depends on what I'm learning, why learning, how to apply it. What do you think?
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, I would agree it's such a tough thing to get into but you're right it depends on what you're learning and how you're learning it and what your rationale is for learning.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If we think about martial arts as having relevance to who you are, where you come from, how you're built, what your goals are, etc. we talk about the why on the show quite a bit and the why for everyone who's ever trained is relevant to what their output is what they train, how they’re training manifest in their forms or freeform technique or whatever it is. The styles of Okinawa Japan, anywhere, have relevance to height, weight, weapons available. Those are all obvious, right? We get that implicitly. Oh, okay. Well, people back then were smaller so you are unlikely to see an 8-foot-long bow. You know for those of you who don't train kabuto stuff, right? But the bow stuff and all that. That’s nails on a chalkboard to some of you. A bow meant to be a little bit taller than they knew. Right? So, we're not seeing an 8-foot bow because there weren't very many 7 feet tall, 7-foot-tall martial artists; these are things that have some relevance. Does it help me as a Joe student to know the birthdate of the founder? I already answered that. No, it doesn't. There's nothing there but does it help me feel more passionate about my training? Because I now have some understanding of where it came from.
Andrew Adams:
And not just passionate but connected.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's a better word connected, yep. and yes Sir, for some people is absolutely. For others not at all. So, it depends.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, and I think one of the other really neat things about looking into some of the history of the martial arts is seeing how they're connected. Again, for most people listening know that I'm a kabuto practitioner that's what I do. Seeing how the main site also cut out. They went from Okinawa to Japan and the change that happened when it went there and why. And then how some practitioners took some of that Karate. They were learning and went to Korea and used it to form their styles and how they're all connected but yet, not connected. I mean, it's really neat and to see why they did the things that they did.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I think there's an important correlation we can draw between martial arts styles in sports and in professional sports. So, bear with me. We know the word Ryu? R. Y. U. As we translate it, what does that mean in English? Means school. [00:11:15-00:11:20] these were pioneered as styles. They were pioneered as schools. And the best example I can think of when we start thinking about schools rather than styles are things like Football. American football. You think you hear about various NFL or college level programs that have styles of offense or defense or plays that are a scribe to them. You think about it and I wish I'd thought of this example before we started recording because now, I'm like I'm not an expert at football. In fact, I'm really a fan of football but you hear this talk about you hear certain coaches bring their style west coast offense. I've heard that discussed within the NFL. Certain coaches will bring their style with them to 2 other teams. It's not a different game. It's a different way of playing the game so we start to think about that. There are some things that we can imagine, we can imagine that the schools that had better instruction and maybe better results for what people wanted. We're more likely to succeed. One of the things that I love about martial arts is that the constant iteration and the good stuff tends to stick around. That comparison, does that work for you?
Andrew Adams:
Yes. That makes sense. I mean I will admit I'm also not a big sports guy. But I can totally see where you're coming from that and it makes sense.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, if we think about it that way. We've got some understanding and we've got some things that have survived. Maybe accidentally. If you don't have to dig too far you, Fudokoshi says flat out in his writings. I'm not trying to create a style where I didn't want to create a style. This is just my stuff. Don't make a big thing out of it but we did and we tend to hold those things up. We tend to do it. There could almost be religious fervor level dedication to some historical aspects of martial arts. When... Okay, does that serve you or not? It depends. I feel like we're being really secure with us. As we talked about it and that's maybe because I don't care about you but depending on the day, I could answer this differently.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, it's in and I think another thing to keep in mind as well is that we're talking a little bit more about the people. And what they've done but I think we're keeping in mind some of the writings of some of the founders of the styles. Hold a lot of weight for just understanding what they meant. A perfect example is I am a Fudokoshi. He had written, I'm pretty sure, in one of his precepts that have come out to his many stanzas and yet it has not. Like that's such a weird thing to say right? And then think about why? Like what does that mean? and I have taken that to mean, when you are a beginner and you’re learning. Karate has many stances, right? You're learning front stance, your backstage during side stance in all circumstances and yet when you become a more advanced practitioner, they're just transitional. You're just moving from one to the next. You're not really necessarily moving into this position and stopping and then throwing a technique. You’re flowing from one to the next and so, understanding his writings can help make you a better practitioner.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Totally. So, I think at this point my thoughts for the listeners, to viewers, because we're doing this one video, and that's still weird for me. It depends on your what's your why. If you were training strictly for, let's say, self-defense combative sort of aspects. I don't know how relevant history is. It's because you can find out. Well, this technique or combination or former, whatever was included, because it was deemed to be the most effective deadly powerful, whatever, but what if that doesn't work for you? I don't know. That matters but for most of us training for other reasons were training for community and maybe health personal growth. All those things and so in those cases I would say, understandably some history is really important. When we had [00:16:05-00:16:07]. He talked a lot about history. In fact, I don't know what episode number that is. Just want a challenge to do videos. I can't just grab my phone and quickly do a Google on it. But that episode, we spent much of our time talking about the importance of history and understanding where we came from. And I'm not saying you have to go out and read every martial arts book. I don't think you should. I think if you've got that much time, you probably spend more time training but reading some of them, reading a book and reading some articles at marshallartsradio.com, maybe. By involving yourself in some of the history. You start to understand that martial arts don't just start and stop at the 4 walls where you trained. It is something much bigger and it's something that connects us and we think about that connection. For me, it gives me something to lean on. It gives me some crotch in a sense for life. This thing that I love so much has been around for a long time and I'm not the only person who loves it. I'm not the only person whose life has completely impacted. Even transformed our safety. It exists and it's something that. While it is not religious in the way that I view it. If you think of modern religions and what a lot of people take from them it checks a lot of the same box. And I'm not saying that to be blasphemous, I'm saying it to help you understand that I think if the more you know about you and your place in your training, the better off you are. However, any of that is defined for you.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely. Well said. Thank you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We get a lot of space to save on the data. I just took all the words.
Andrew Adams:
No, that's great summation.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thank you. But do we have more to add before we head out?
Andrew Adams:
I don't.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, well if you do, if you're watching, if you’re listening to this and you [00:18:09-00:18:11] missed. We want to hear. We definitely want to hear. You can go to YouTube and you can find this episode 561and drop a really mean comment because lately that's what people do; they leave mean comments. Although, I'll be honest, Facebook has gotten meaner than YouTube. YouTube backed off a little bit. More spammy. Wow. but Facebook is way meaner and it's meaner from people who know you. Which is not kind or you can email me at jeremy@whistlekick.com. I’ll share the feedback with Andrew. You can post it at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Lots of ways but we do care about what you think. If you've got a topic or suggestion, you know, let me know about those 2. Don't forget if you want to help, support us, buy something at whistlekick.com. We support the patreon, and share an episode. All the above, all important, all good. And we thank you for being here. What do I miss?
Andrew Adams:
I don't think so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is an interesting transition. This is Jeremy and starts to go off paper. Prices and gets the order of things, really messed up. No, that's it. We did it. Our social media accounts are whistlekick. This is Andrew and I'm Jeremy. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.