Episode 593 - Are Experience and Progress the Same
In this episode, Jeremy and co-host Andrew Adams talk about whether experience and progress are the same.
Are Experience and Progress the Same - Episode 593
The question at hand is: what 20 years of experience look like compared to 1 year of experience, 20 times? Is there a difference between the 2 situations or are they exactly the same? With that, Jeremy and co-host Andrew Adams talk about whether experience and progress are the same. Listen and join the conversation!
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
James Lesniak:
What's happening? Everybody, welcome! This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 593. Today, Andrew and I are talking about whether experience and progress are the same thing. This is gonna be a fun conversation. We haven't had it yet but I know it's gonna be a fun conversation. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, host for the show, joined by co-host, Andrew Adams. Here at whistlekick, we love martial arts. We love traditional martial arts that's why we do what we do. You can see what we do at whistlekick.com. It's all in support of the traditional arts and you're gonna a number of things over there at that website. One of them is our store. If you find stuff in there that you wanna buy, from training programs to shirts to equipment, whatever, use the code podcast15. It's gonna save you 15% off and helps us cover our expenses.
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Andrew Adams:
Cool.
James Lesniak:
I'm constantly coming up with new drills that people can do at home that will make them better because I find that fun and it's an interesting challenge. Enough of that though. Let's talks about this question. Now, this question of experience versus progress. This wasn't you came up with. Not that you're not capable of coming up with something insightful and poignant to talk about but this came from somebody else so let's make sure we give them credit.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, so this topic was actually given to us by Gabe.
James Lesniak:
[00:02:29:15]
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, from whistlekick at live fame.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, so he's famous.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, so his question...his topic...
James Lesniak:
Please watch that show. That was a fun show. We've retired that show. That's what we this [00:02:41:29]
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, we're really sad. But his comment was, "I've heard it said that you can do something for 20 years but not have 20 years of experience. You might only have only 1 year of experience 20 times. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what 20 years of experience looks like compared to 1 year of experience 20 times.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, so at the risk of oversimplifying this and making it a really short episode, I'm thinking of this question in terms of farming or gardening. A garden is something that is annual for people who plant gardens. Most people who plant gardens tend to plant more less the same crops. Let's pretend you're planting the same crops. Let's say I plant tomatoes and corn, and peas okay. Here's the difference as it relates to gardening with that question. Putting the tomatoes in the same place every year, knowing that every year they're gonna be dissipated by hornworms and refusing to do anything about it, I'd just lamenting that the tomatoes don't grow well. But getting, let's say a lot of corn and peas from other spots, that's the same thing year after year. That's 20 examples of 1 year of experience.
20 years of experience are, hey, if I put the tomatoes over here and put the corn here instead, I don't have those problems and continuing to develop my garden plan such that I increase my yield every year and get better and better and better over time, that's 20 years of experience.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, that's...I don't want to say oversimplified but that's a simple way to think of it.
James Lesniak:
It's probably oversimplified because there's far more nuance there. You've got environmental concerns.
Andrew Adams:
Yup.
James Lesniak:
You know, some years are gonna be better than others but I think the heart of it when we're talking about gardening or martial arts or anything else is you iterating on what you have done and progressing? Are you finding the opportunities to do things differently and thus do things better because remember, you cannot have progress without change. If you train the exact same way you've always done, you always have the same results. And another non-martial arts example that I see that bugs me, I'll see people lift weights at the gym and they do the same exercises in the same order with the same weights and the same repetitions every time they go in. They get great results for maybe 6 months, maybe 12 and then the plateau. They don't get anything different out of it because their body has adapted. If you want to get different results, you have to have different input whether it's lifting weights or gardening or martial arts.
Andrew Adams:
Yup. I think there's something to be said though. For progress, you do need that change but having said that, you also for progress you need that repetition as well. I think that this question is implying that the way it's worded in terms of 1 year experience 20 times, that's saying that what you did for 1 year is exactly what you're gonna do the next year.
James Lesniak:
Well, maybe that's true.
Andrew Adams:
I highly doubt it. But it's not like you learn, you do your form once and you're done. You're gonna do that a lot right. But even if you do set things for one year and then you do the exact same things the next year, that's still progress. In fact, I would go so far as to say if you one thing for one year and you do totally something different martial art-wise in year two, something totally different in year three, something totally different in year four. By the time you've got 20 years, what you learned in year one is not gonna be nearly as valuable or good to you or you're not gonna be as good at it as someone who has practiced it consistently.
James Lesniak:
Sure. Now, I'm not suggesting that you are doing something completely different. I'm saying...let's say, if you want to...let's take an example of a form, a more or less but not quite universal martial arts experience but...
Andrew Adams:
Fair.
James Lesniak:
Calm enough that I think everybody can wrap their mind around it. If I do my form the same way, it does not progress. But if I'm challenging myself with deeper stances or faster or more powerful or refining technique, I could do that form five times every day and not change the way I do it at all and not get better just get really consistent at that level of quality of that form. Or I could find new ways to do that form as I'm doing it five times every day challenging my ability or understanding or whatever of that form and that progresses, right. So if we...I like to use the example of resistance training 'cause they're multiple very clear objective variables. The number of sets, the number of repetitions, the amount of weight, the speed which I do the movement, the technique which I do the movement.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, lots of variables.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, you could change out of I think I had five, six there. I could change one of them, keep the others exactly the same and see progress. And eventually that progress is gonna wear out. I'm not gonna see progress, I'm gonna have to change other variables. Quite often we change too many variables. I've trained in this style for a year, I'm gonna do this completely different style over here. That gets you 20 iterations of 1 year experience.
Andrew Adams:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You know, you've got to stick with something long enough to really learn it and I don't want this to transition don't leave your...that's not what I'm talking about. Don't cross-train another things but I do think there is a difference between sticking with one thing and practicing it for 20 years as opposed to 20 things that you've practiced for a year.
James Lesniak:
Yeah. We did an episode on, by we... this was before you joined the show but mastery versus diversity. Those are opposite ends of the spectrum. If I train in a...if I wanna be the best at throwing back fists I can be, the only thing I'm going to do is throw back fists. Everything that I do that is not a back fist or related to a stance or other things that help my back fist is wasteful towards that goal. But if I want to be a well-rounded martial artist, I have to incorporate some other things. If I want to be a very well-rounded martial artist, I start heading in the direction of diversity on the spectrum and now I'm doing a bunch of different things. That's where that 20 years of training versus 20 times 1 year of training starts to become a little clear. Were you looking up the episode number?
Andrew Adams:
261.
James Lesniak:
[00:10:29:04] I feel like...and neither is wrong. It depends what's important to you.
Andrew Adams:
What's your goal?
James Lesniak:
What is your goal? Right. If you...I don't think I have to say more than that, right. There are different ways to look at this problem and the problem being how do I spend my training time. And I don't think there are wrong ways. The only way it's wrong is if you are training in a way that does not serve your goal.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely, and everyone's goal is different.
James Lesniak:
Yup.
Andrew Adams:
And that's okay. You know, the expression that comes to mind in which I'm sure everyone has heard is "Jack of all trades, master of none".
James Lesniak:
Sure.
Andrew Adams:
Some people want that and that's absolutely great.
James Lesniak:
Yup.
Andrew Adams:
If that's what they're looking for, you know.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, my consulting business model is pretty much based around that. If I find a hole in what I can advise people on, I work on that. There's something I'm working on right now that I'm not very good at and I'm getting better. If you read between the lines, you'll probably figure out what that is as you listen to this show or the next few months because I've made some changes on some things. Very subtle but you'll see it.
Is there a case to be made...are there times when someone may not realize and I don't know if this is true but let's follow this thread. Are there times when someone may not realize that they're approach to training is incongruent with their goal?
Andrew Adams:
Well, I think if they're not...if they don't have the self-[00:12:04:10] to determine what their goal is, then absolutely. You know, that's something you have to internalize and you have to figure out for yourself.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, and I think it's important to know too that where someone ends up on this spectrum on this mastery versus diversity, is going to impact how they teach. If your goal is different than their goal, that may be an example of where an instructor doesn't work for you. In fact, I would guess that most of the time when an instructor and student don't jive, it is because of a disconnect of where they want to be relatively on that diversity versus mastery scale.
Andrew Adams:
Which would then involve a conversation...
James Lesniak:
Yeah, and it's okay. I've trained at schools that want to do something different every single time. But what about the 400 things that we did last week that I don't know how to do well yet? And I've trained in other schools that want to do the same thing every single class until everybody's perfect at it and my eyes are bleeding.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, and you got to figure out what is right for you.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, and that's important. There's the theme of this show in a nutshell - figure out your why and lead from there.
Andrew Adams:
That's a great quote.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, we should write that one down. Teacher write that one down. Keep talking, talk while I write that.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, and I would say don't be afraid to have those types of conversations. You know, with yourself right. Maybe not out loud. You know, people will look at you funny. But don't be afraid to think about that stuff and don't be afraid to have those conversations with your instructor too.
James Lesniak:
I agree. Anything else that we should say? Do you think we answered Gabe's question?
Andrew Adams:
I think only Gabe can truly tell us so we'll have to wait and see what he says but I think so.
James Lesniak:
Alright. Well, hopefully. Gabe, if we didn't, we're gonna make you come on the show. We're gonna let you come on the show. We're gonna let you and make you. I don't know. We'll figure it out. He's been on the show.
James Lesniak:
Yeah. Alright, well good. If you're out there and you're listening or watching this episode, Andrew and I love responding to inquiries from you all because it means that at least one person is gonna be pumped on the subject. So don't be afraid to write in or to comment. You know, in any of the variety of ways you can do so and we'll take your questions and comments. If you want to see a transcript for this episode, for other episodes, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. This one will be on YouTube as well. We're trying to get more video over on YouTube so make sure you head on over there, subscribe. If you search whistlekick on YouTube, you can't help but find us. We're the only whistlekick out there and remember every page has its own, every episode rather has its own page or links or stuff like that. So, I don't think there's...what'd you say? It was 261?
Andrew Adams:
Yes, 261.
James Lesniak:
Okay so, episode 261 on diversity versus mastery. If you're willing to support us and the work that we're doing. All this content that we bring you for free, you've got a lot of options. You can share an episode, leave a review, tell a friend, or contribute to our Patreon - patreon.com/whistlekick. Don't forget we designed this amazing strength and conditioning program for martial artists and you can do it at home with no equipment. Grab it at whistlekick.com. Don't forget the code podcast15, it's gonna get 15% off that program or anything else on there. If you have guest suggestions, topic suggestions, we want to hear 'em. And our social media which we out a lot into, it's @whistlekick. My personal email, jeremy@whistlekick.com. If you want to write to Andrew, write to me and I'll forward to unto him instead of giving you a bunch of email addresses. Unless you want to - andrew@whistlekickmartialartsradio.com.
Andrew Adams:
Works for me.
James Lesniak:
Alright, let's close it up. Until next time...
James Lesniak & Andrew Adams:
...train hard, smile, and have a great day!