Episode 826 - Mr. Rokas Leo
Mr. Rokas Leo is a martial arts practitioner, instructor, and co-organizer of the Ultimate Self-Defense Championship.
I didn't know what Aikido is before I went in there. Just a friend of mine was like, “Hey, let's go try it together.” And I went in and part of that, I saw the swords. I was like, hell yeah, I'm going to learn swords and hand to hand fighting…
Mr. Rokas Leo - Episode 826
Evaluating the effectiveness of the discipline you have always trained in is important, but it can be difficult. Mr. Rokas Leo had a passion for Aikido until he realized that it wasn't the best discipline for self-defense. Mr. Leo's martial arts journey began with his interest in traditional martial arts, particularly the samurai and their swords. He was then invited to try Aikido, which he fell in love with from the first day.
However, Mr. Leo eventually felt like he had hit a plateau in his training and was struggling to find new challenges within Aikido. This led him to explore other martial arts disciplines and training methods, which he found to be more effective and fulfilling.
In this conversation, Mr. Rokas Leo talks about his Aikido journey and the success of the crowdfunding campaign for season two of his martial arts competition series, Ultimate Self Defense Championship. Mr. Rokas Leo is a co-organizer of the Ultimate Self-Defense Championship.
Show notes
You can follow Mr Rokas Leo on the following social media platforms:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCazByhbmztoIg6ZKeI25PGw
https://www.instagram.com/rokas_martialartsjourney/
This episode is sponsored by Safest Family on the Block by Jason Brick
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Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey, how are you? Thanks for coming by. Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, episode 826 with my guest today, Mr. Rokas Leonavicius, I appreciate you being here. If you're new to Martial Arts Radio, what do we do? Well, we connect, educate, and entertain. We want everyone in the world to train, and that's why we do so many different things. Go check out whistlekick.com, use the code podcast15, buy something in the store, show us some love, maybe join our Patreon. You can get all kinds of exclusive and behind-the-scenes. Cool stuff starts at $2 a month, and we've got tiers that go up from there. There's a bunch of cool stuff and I'm gonna let you hunt around and find all the cool stuff, find the stuff that you wanna interact with. Now, there's something else going on today that is really important, and that is that this episode is sponsored. And when we have a sponsored episode, the major thing I ask of you show the sponsor some love. In this case, it's Jason Brick with Safest Family on the Block. Great friend, great supporter of everything we've done. He is one of us for sure, and I want you to go check out Safest Family on the Block, his podcast which brings together martial arts, journalism, and parenting, family safety, all kinds of cool things, not just in terms of martial arts and self-defense, but also in terms of driving safety, mental health. If you could think of a topic that relates to a family and keeping a family safe and healthy in the modern world, Jason's probably covered it. And if he hasn't, I bet if you reach out to him, he'll find an expert that he can bring on the show to make sure that he gets some great information on that subject because he's that kind of guy. He's a very, very smart man, knows a ton of great stuff and that's why he put together such a cool book that extends the information from the podcast. And if you want, you can save 25% on that book using the very generous code, whistlekick23, and you connect with the Safest Family on the Block and Jason and order that book by following him on Instagram or on Facebook, Safest Family on the Block, or checking out the links and the show notes. And I hope that you do, I'm asking you to, right? This is important. We, we need to support our sponsors, right? They help us out and so there we are. Alright, now today's episode with Rokas, Sir Rokas Leonavicius, and I'm saying the name multiple times because I wanna get it right, I wanna get it right. I wanna make sure that I show him the effort. It's an awesome, awesome conversation. We talked about, we've heard different flavors of this story before where you kind of start doing one thing, and then it kind of changes a bit. And you know what? I'm gonna ruin it. I don't wanna ruin it. I want this to unfold for you as it goes. So check it out. Enjoy and I'll see you in the outro.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Hello there!
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hello. How are you?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, I'm good. Also worked with shadows just an hour ago filming a video, like, you know, lighting and everything. I hate that stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
It's the horse.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, you know, my least favorite part about video is that it takes so long to do it well.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like if I wanted great lighting in here, I've got good lighting, but if I wanted great lighting?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's hundreds of dollars and prep time every single time because you know the lights end up in this tiny, slightly different location and everything.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that's the course I set myself upon right now is I started to look at quality much more. And that's, you know, I think it's the Pareto Law? I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right in English, but the 20-80 rule, it's like…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, 20% creates 80% results. And in the past that was all about like, yeah, do 20% of work, have 80% results good. And recently I'm like, I want the last 20% of results and it takes so much more effort.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But that's why most people don't do it.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, I guess it's worth it. I hope it is.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think the key is knowing when to stay at the 20% effort and when to do more.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, it's a good one. I like that. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, for a long time we were audio only and it was so easy. Guests would come on and you know, I could be wearing anything.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And the lighting didn't matter and it didn't matter if I was focused on them. You know, when I talk to people, you know, especially if I'm thinking, I tend to, you know, I'm one of these, I tend to look around, but I can't do that when I do this show. I have to look at you.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I took a lot of work. I was resistant to it but…
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, I guess. But, I think, you know, it's maybe the challenge is when somebody starts from the get go at like wanting to do the 100% thing. And I think that's, I'm just kinda thinking out loud, but I think that's difficult because there's a lack of experience, the person still doesn't really know what they're looking for, and then it's just too much versus when if we're doing this for a while and I think sounds like that was your case as well, and that was definitely my case. I've been doing this my thing for a while and then eventually I'm like, I guess I'm so comfortable with doing what I'm already doing and I know what works but doesn't work in that realm. Might as well expand and push myself further. And it kind of works so far, but I'm still kind of laughing for myself thinking that probably sometimes, like you mentioned, you have to choose the right time, when to do it and when not to do it. And I think sometimes I'm like, probably nobody will care. Like there's a specific moment in the ultimate Self Defense Championship thing I did, and I had two versions of like the opening scene and they were switched around like there's one detail which was switched around. And for me, I felt, I thought this like, that's like so important.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You obsessed over it.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. And I sent it to like five different people and four of them were like, isn't this the same clip? I'm like, no, you're missing the whole point.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So what did the fifth one say?
Rokas Leonavicius:
The fifth one was like okay, I get it and I think like this one is better, but I don't really think there was a big difference. And I was like damn! I spent like two hours obsessing about it, so who knows?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. The way you talked about, you know, jumping in and going for a hundred percent right off the bat, that's so many people's introduction to martial arts.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? Whether it's because the instructor wants them to know so much on their first day that they can't help but come back, or because of their own personal commitment. I don't know if you were that kind of a person when you jump into something, you're just like all in and it's all you do, it's all you think about.
Rokas Leonavicius:
I'm a hundred percent like that. I'm an extreme guy. I'm all or nothing in most cases. And as for the student side of things, I think that's a little bit bad because I think that's possible to abuse it. And I think my instructors to some degree abused it. I don't think they did it like consciously in order to abuse it, but I think it's just that dynamic developed into where I'm like, I'm getting myself all, I'm not questioning and then I end up not always doing things which are the best for me. But also then, as an instructor and on the flip side of things, when I was an instructor, and especially when I realized that I actually took over that without realizing from my instructor, kind of abusing the power. Not like dramatically, but there were moments I realized that there's that same dynamic between me and my students, how I was with my instructor, and it wasn't always good. I started questioning that. And then also in regards to welcoming new people, I started looking and realizing, okay, maybe I shouldn't just like, as you said, like I shouldn't just throw everything at them and be like, oh, I'll teach you in one go everything I know. But versus instead I'm like, okay, let's see your pace. Let's see how much you want, what you're interested in. And I think that was much healthier approach. And there's some people who are like, give me everything. And then you still, you need to stop them and be like, well, let's see. Maybe you don't need everything yet.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Rokas Leonavicius:
But yeah, it's a tough dynamic.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I bet if we were to look at the schools that have classes, you know, before 5, 6, 7 days a week, you know, cause you get people who start like, this is gonna be my whole life. It's gonna be my identity. I'm gonna go every single day. They tend to burn out so fast.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, I understand.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, there are some people who make it through that cause that's just how they're built. But I think most people when they start that way, they fall off cause it's not sustainable. And if they can't do the six days a week they committed to, they might as well do zero days a week.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I think it would serve a lot of school owners to limit the amount that new students can attend.
Rokas Leonavicius:
I think that's smart. I think smart instructors probably do that. They don't like encourage that obsessive behavior. I think it's kind of a fine line I guess to give way for that, but not to give too much. And personally, like I was one of those few people, like you mentioned, especially in the past where I could just go all out and I was fine, but also I was like under my 20s and then in my early 20s so I guess that was the right time to do that. Plus my character was like that. But later on in my, like when I started switching to combat sports, I was like 29 I think, and that was not the same as 21 or 19, and I would burn out much faster. And part of me is almost upset that my instructors didn't hold me back because they technically knew what a burnout is. It felt like to me, like, okay, I'm new here. I didn't know about it. I had to read about it and learn like why am I not sleeping so well anymore? Why am I regressing and not progressing?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
And we kind of talked about it, but then it's funny, I guess there's also that ambitious side of instructors where they want the student to achieve the maximum. And when I would like be burnt out or like half sick, like they would still be like, yeah, but you can still come in and train and maybe it's gonna be fine. And I'm looking at it back now right now, I'm like, no! You were supposed to tell me just stay in your bed and don't come unless like you really feel good. So, yeah. I think you're right. Instructors should probably hold those people back.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. So you said when you got into combat sports which suggests you were doing a different style of training. So, you know, let's go back. What's your introduction to training look like?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. So, well, first it was just geeking out about traditional martial arts Samurai and the East. I guess that's a common story.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Very common.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. Then I was invited to try out Aikido and fell in love from the first day with it. And I became obsessed and I guess lucky for me, I was a sickly kid, so I would kind of go for a few months hard and then skip like a month because of being sick, come back. But anyway, I would just, and whenever I could, I just kept doing eventually and after school I decided to do it to aim for the professional kind of level. And went to be a living student in an Aikido school for a few years. And then eventually, I became an instructor. So that was like my Aikido journey. But also, I did like other stuff like Wing Chun, a little bit of karate, but mainly it was Aikido. I was very much an Aikido.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did you, I guess fall into Aikido accidentally, or were you looking for Aikido?
Rokas Leonavicius:
I wasn't really looking for Aikido, but as I mentioned, I already was into some rise stuff. And the…
Jeremy Lesniak:
And use the swords?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Swords, also the Hakama, you know, the fancy pants. That's one of the best things about Aikido.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's how I'm gonna refer to Hakama from now on is fancy pants.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Fancy pants.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think that's the best description I've heard.
Rokas Leonavicius:
It's kinda like it is.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That’s true.
Rokas Leonavicius:
That's the thing. And so just when, I didn't know what Aikido is before I went in there, just a friend of mine was like, hey, let's go strike together. And I went in and part of that, yes, I saw the swords. I was like, oh, hell yeah. I'm gonna learn swords and hand to hand fighting. And then I'm gonna get the fancy pants one time, like eventually one day. But then I also started reading the Aikido books, like the Morihei Ueshiba, the founder’s Art of Peace. It's somewhat known these days like the Walking Dead even TV show used it in one of the episodes, and everyone's like, oh, what is Aikido now? So I read that before The Walking Dead. So, I loved it. I was like a peaceful guy by nature. And the philosophy that I read about Aikido was like, this is like exactly what I'm looking for. And then it was already appealing from the way it looked and it worked, especially like the whole, it's nonviolent. We're not punching each other, we're redirecting. So I liked that already. And then the more I read about it, the more I was like this was made for me, I guess it was for a long time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. For a long time suggests that there might have been a cutoff, a hard end.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Rather than a fade so.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Is that something you'll talk about?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yes, very observant. I did cut it off quite abruptly. Obviously, it was a process but after a number of years, it was actually quite a few years, but I started off with Aikido as a philosophical martial arts, but also I was investing into it as a self-defense practice. Because I was growing up in a rough city, I was constantly seeing violence. I got to experience where violence.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Where did you grow up?
Rokas Leonavicius:
It's a country called Lithuania. So, not really known unless somebody like has something to do with it, but Lithuania is a post-Soviet country. So after the Soviets left, the country was kind of in a crazy situation where the law was barely existing. It took a while until democracy and the law enforcement developed, and during that period a lot of crime was happening. And I was living in the hotspot of all of that. Like the city which had the most crime, like shootouts in the street. I never saw one, but apparently they would happen. But there were old gangs, like older gangs, like adult people and then the younger generation was copying them. And I was not part of that. I was the opposite. I was the peaceful kid. So I was the target constantly, me and my friends. So yeah, I saw a lot of that. And then I wanted to protect myself. I wanted to protect my friends. And I was promised that Aikido will teach me that. My first instructor was saying that it works. It never did for me personally. Like I was attacked a number of times trying to use Aikido, but fell back to just like punching and running away, which works great, but it wasn't like Aikido, you know, I was, it wasn't like fancy Aikido moves, which I learned. Then I thought that my first instructor is the issue. I moved to a different country. I went to like a high level instructor, became a living student. And then, he was a little bit more cautious about the self-defense stuff, but he still said, okay, this still works, this is great. And, uh, it still didn't really work. And then eventually I pressure tested it. I was kind of clear that, okay, this is not the best martial fight for self-defense and I'm fine with it. But then I thought it still works to some degree. And it can, I'm not saying it doesn't, but it didn't work for me. And eventually I pressure tested my Aikido, and it's kind of a long story, but making it short, I pressure tested it. And realized, okay, it's much less effective than I thought. But my trouble was that my instructor wasn't on the same page. She was like, oh, no, it works, but kind of like, you're wrong. You shouldn't question Aikido. And that turned me off. And eventually I started feeling like I'm, I was very clear to my students, okay, I'm not teaching you cell defense, but still I felt like I'm not honest with them. And eventually I was so interested to learn what I wanted to learn initially that was self defense and fighting. And one gentleman suggested for me to completely dropped everything and just focus on that. And it's an extreme and you know, radical decision.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
But I was like that's my type of lifestyle. And I was like, you know what, let's do it. So I quit. Aikido closed my dojo and my first step was I enrolled in a six months intensive MMA training kind of camp, so to speak. Yeah. So that was, yeah, that was it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Given that some of the appeal of Aikido for you was the philosophical aspect, the peacefulness, what was it like emotionally to let that go?
Rokas Leonavicius:
It was a mixed bag of things. I think I was part lucky because I was gradually becoming aware that Aikido’s not giving me what I was promised, that it will give in terms of like being able, like to speak of like a specific example, my second main instructor, the high level Aikido, he said that if you are a black belt, like a first degree black belt, you should be able to deal against an untrained fighter. If you’re a third degree black belt, you should be able to deal with a train attacker. Like, you know, like a fighter. And I was third degree black belt by the time I quit Aikido. And when I tried it with a fighter, like a friendly sparring, and he was like super gentle with me, it did not work whatsoever. So I was like, wait, that was not true what he said to me back then. So the lucky part coming back to the main point was that I gradually got exposed to, okay, it doesn't work so great. Maybe it's even worse than I thought. Maybe it's even worse. And I was like, okay. Because Aikido is very much also philosophical martial art, and I was leaning onto that. I was like, okay, I'm all about philosophy. I love it. But I still kind of held a spot of belief that it works to some degree. Like if it's like extreme life or death situation, maybe it's gonna kick in. But it wasn't like my core belief wasn't like, I'm amazing and I would kick everyone's ass. Like if that's, you know what a martial artist thinks, and then they get destroyed by someone else, I know that's extremely hard. I met these people. I spoke to them. I know that's like, that's shocking because it's like a single moment and your whole narrative gets destroyed. For me, I only got my portion of narrative destroyed, which was like, it still works in extreme conditions. I was like, ah, maybe it doesn't, but, so that wasn't too hard on me. But the hard part was that the organization that I was part of, like my, I considered my family, lots of different, I was part of the instructor circle. Lots of instructors who are my friends, the members, and they didn't understand what I'm talking about questioning Aikido. They were like we're not sure. Like I started to talk about problems like with over-focusing on tradition and arrogance that may come from some instructors from that and the lack of pressure testing and questioning. And they couldn't see where I'm coming from. And eventually, I was essentially suggested to either stop questioning Aikido or quit. So I quit. They did not see that coming. I think my instructor was, my sensei was expecting me to stay to take the ultimatum on the other side. But that was hard because I realized people who I spent so much time with did not see eye tied with me. Like they couldn't see where I'm coming from. And also, when I quit the organization, no member contacted me. Like all of my friends who were like, I was like, oh, these are my people. They're like, nobody wrote to me anything. They're like, oh, sorry dude. Or like, are you okay? Like nothing. And I was like, I felt betrayed. I felt lost and confused. Then I started questioning my senses philosophy as well. I was like, wait, if he's wrong about fighting, maybe there's a chance that he's wrong about the philosophy to some degree. And there's a lot of, there's a portion of things which were great. But there's also a portion of things which were not. And I was taking the whole thing at the same time. So initially I threw the baby with the bathwater. I was like, oh, it's all crap. I hate it. This is terrible. I want nothing to do with this. So that was hard. That was painful because I think that was the hard part cause that was my identity, the philosophy, the, the core belief systems of Aikido. And when I had to throw that away, I was like, ok, so who am I without that? Like, somehow I'm like, I dunno, you know?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Is that why you went into MMA? Because I think a lot of people would look at, if we were to, you know, somehow chart out martial arts on some sort of spectrum, Aikido, you could make the argument. It's kind of at one end of that spectrum and MMA kind of being the opposite.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, I think it's very true. I think because Aikidos all about peace and it's not all about violence. That's not fair to say, but still there's, there's a lot of violence to some degree. We're punching each other in the face. So, I think some people commented on that because I actually recorded all of that journey. It's, it's all public, it's all, it's all on record on my channel. That's what my channel became about prior...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Your YouTube channel…
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're talking about.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. Prior to that, it was all about Aikido tutorials and just my perspective. And then because I was making the shift and I was a master of none, I was like, well, might as well just, you know, make it public. Why not?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Rokas Leonavicius:
So some people were commenting and saying, oh, you're just taking one extreme and going to the other. But also in regards, and I think that's reflective of my character, which we discussed a little bit already about is I went like from I'm gonna be the, I never went like I'm gonna be aggressive or something like that. But I still went from identifying myself with the martial art, which is super peaceful to going to identify myself with more like Jiujitsu or MMA. Jiujitsu is still kind of low key in terms of violence, but I kind of latched onto that for a while and kind of started developing my identity there. But I think because of the experience, because I already went through being too identified with something and then getting burnt from it, I was aware of it in the process and soon enough I was like, okay, let me make sure I don't do the same mistake. And I look at the pros and cons of whatever I do from early stages instead of doing this for 10 years and then like, hey, wait. So I definitely received a lot of, I think, very positive qualities from combat sports. Like this is kinda starting into another subject, but…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Rokas Leonavicius:
But quickly touch it like an Aikido. The peaceful nature, you kind of become not only identified with it, but it also becomes kind of your way of being internally and externally. Like, you know, it's kind of semi joke, but semi-true of having a ponytail. I had one, you know, like the whole Stephen Siegal Samurai thing, and then I was much skinnier. And I was also doing yoga, so that was part of that too, the yoga meditation. So, I was skinny to a degree which was not healthy. And so I didn't look healthy, but I thought like, that's the way to go. And the way I carried myself, I didn't feel comfortable. I think that was the con of the whole thing. I didn't feel comfortable. Like when I started going to many gyms, I was really intimidated because everyone looked so scary and they have these tattoos and they're all making like alpha male jokes. And I'm like, okay, what do I say? I don’t know how to function in this environment and then I don't think I became that type of guy, which again, it's not a bad or good thing, but I didn't become one, but I became comfortable with that. And now if I meet some MA fighters, like great funny story. I was filming an event, like a belter event, like a major MMA promotion and in London. And I was sitting with my friend, like an all time friend in a cafe. And the hotel which was hosting all the fighters was next by. And all the streets were packed with like these buff, scary dudes. And they're just walking around looking for a place to eat. And my friend, I see he's looking at them and he doesn't feel comfortable. He's intimidated by all the, all of them just walking around. I'm like, like, hey, I used to that dude. I'm like, now I'm looking at it. I'm like, I know these are good dudes. Like I know I could talk to them. I know I can spar with them. I knew they would kill me, but I could spar. So, long story short, I think it was a great transformation that I became comfortable with that different realm. It made me more balanced, and now I think I'm not like latched onto any of them, or at least I try not to be, but I just take the best I can.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Of course, there's a lot of conversation about MMA versus or in relation to traditional martial arts. What do you think was different for your experience stepping into that gym with your Aikido background versus the other folks who were coming in with no traditional martial arts background?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. I think, well, the shocking part initially is that the traditional martial arts training, or at least Aikido training, didn't really like come directly. It wasn't like, oh, I can right away apply these moves. It took a long time for me to learn the fundamentals of fighting and then be like, hey, I can move. I can use this Aikido move here. I could do this Aikido thing here. Initially, it didn't come up, and I guess part of me hoped it would and it didn't. But I realized quickly because I was documenting the journey, I was sharing it, other people were sharing their stories and I realized, okay, this is universal. It's just the way it is, I have to accept it. There were good parts too, though. Like my body awareness was on a greater level than a regular student. I was so used to looking and observing these complex Aikido movements and replicating them, that when I was shown a jiujitsu technique or a mixed martial arts technique, I would look at it and be like, okay, I can remember like five different things that I was told, and I was always hungry for more, like a new student would be like, oh, I'm just gonna try and do this, and they would probably hear like one out of 10 things. And I was like, I would hear as much as I can and then I would be like, hey, what about this tiny detail? What about this detail? And I was like, always hungry. And I think that came from me being, me already having that mindset of learning martial arts, which is great. But then other than that, yeah, also that I guess that transition from one environment to a different environment, just me not being comfortable. But that's just because traditional martial arts, or specifically if I take my example, like kiddo is so sterile in a way, like in a nice way. You know, it's just like the dojo's clean and everyone is calm and there's meditation and everyone's respectful. Everyone is bowing. And there's respect in combat sports as well. But tradition doesn't really matter and then it's a different environment. So, it took me a while to get used to that, but I think that can apply to any regular person as well. Like, that's not necessarily specifically to traditional martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure. And you know, I'm sure there are folks out there who train Aikido and there are folks out there who probably see Aikido in a negative light. You know, it's probably, it's, of the traditional arts, it's probably the most polarizing, right? It's the one that, that gets the most, gets people to talk the loudest, right?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Either for or against.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So here's the question, if I may.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you regret your time in Aikido?
Rokas Leonavicius:
It's a big question and it's one that popped up a number of times through my journey. I'd say I don't regret it. Like I never had like a pure regret of, oh, I hate my life for doing this. I wish I never done this. Like there was certainly the possibility, but I didn't feel like I went that route. I still found a lot of good things, like, especially now as I'm balancing and recalibrating myself and being able to look at and distinguish good things from bad things and take the good things and leave the bad things away. So I'm like, oh, I learned actually a lot of great things. Like it was very influential in the way I developed and became who I am right now. Also, it's a bit easier for me not to regret it because essentially that became my main story which I shared publicly. Like that became my superpower in a way. I'm like the guy who was Aikido and then he quit Aikido and he became MMA. And that puts me in a unique position where I can actually look at both sides and talk about it. Like say, oh, when I was doing Aikido and now I'm doing this, I can compare it. So in a way that that's a very great position to be in as well. So I don't necessarily regret it, but part of me is just sad because I think I'm just sad about the whole process and realizing that there are other people who are still going through that process where the relationship is not always the healthiest between the sensei and the student or the senpai and the kohai. And the questioning is not encouraged in some of the schools. Not all schools, there are obviously good schools, but many schools, it's just like, I think that's Westerners being more Japanese than Japanese. You know what I'm talking about?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I do, I do actually.
Rokas Leonavicius:
So there was actually a Japanese lady who I was training Aikido with, and she told me that she was shocked the first time she moved from Japan and walked into Aikido Dojo and saw Westerners acting more Japanese than Japanese. But I think that's the downside where we worship the whole structure so much that we start to lean so heavily into that we lose track of why we're doing this. So some of it sad that that happens and that I was susceptible to that, but at the same time, as I said, like that became my superpower in a way. So I can't have too many regrets about it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That was all pretty much one question. Yeah, right on that, that I said what was the beginning of your training? And we got there. Awesome. I love it. You make my job easy. Appreciate that. So you get into MMA and I think I heard you say at 28?
Rokas Leonavicius:
I think I was around 28. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Rokas Leonavicius:
I think 28 when I started practicing while still running the Dojo or 27, 28, and I think around 20. I'm bad with time, but probably around 29 when I completely moved to, to MMA. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. And if we follow that timeline, what's the next significant point we should talk about?
Rokas Leonavicius:
It's a good question. So there's like a few moments. I mean, I can just, I guess I can recap what happened…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Next, that's a fun journey. And then move to the major things which I guess are happening right now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Rokas Leonavicius:
So, I quit my dojo. I quit the organization. I closed my dojo. My students were very sad. I didn't see it coming. I was very naive, I guess, because I was like, oh, I don't love Aikido anymore. I'm sure my students don't as well, but turns out they still loved it. It was like, yeah, it was too bad that, you know, it happened to them cause of what happened to me, the losing of Aikido. But then I moved to the States. Trained for six months in that intensive MMA program. Had my first MMA cage fight, which was quite an experience. You know, it's a crazy to realize that somebody, including myself, that somebody is willingly, puts themselves in a little cage, has themselves locked in with just two more dudes, you know, the referee or whoever, whatever that right term is and then the other fighter whose only sole purpose is to beat you up in a way where you submit and beat you up, it's like, wow. And we're doing this intentionally and we're not even getting paid. So yes, it's crazy. But I did it. It was good experience. Then I went to train with a Pro-MMA team in Dublin at BGE Ireland. That's like the team of Conor McGregor. But the thing is that I was like the complete underdog. I was not really supposed to be there, but I kind of talked my way into it. I thought…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, yeah, that. I gotta say that sounds interesting that after one fight, and how did that fight go? Did you win?
Rokas Leonavicius:
I did lose, but a split decision.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. Alright. So your first fight, you lose, so it's, you know, can't even say you're a fighting phenom and they said, oh, we gotta get this guy in.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How did you get onto a team, let alone a team of such prominence?
Rokas Leonavicius:
For ways of charm.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I wanna take lessons. This is impressive.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Actually, there was a very specific moment, and I do like that moment and what happened. So I was filming some stuff for the gym where I was training MMA. And part of that organization is Coach John Kavanagh, the founder of that gym, which is Conor McGregor is part of, and he was teaching a seminar and I had to film a conversation between him and another instructor. And in the meantime I was like, hey John, do you have a minute to like, talk to me on my camera, on my like channel? And he was kind enough to say yes. And after that, after a short conversation, we just kept talking between each other. He mentioned that he's reviving his YouTube channel. And I said, well, you know, I know this and that about YouTube. And I was like, the funny part is that internally I was in the consideration of should I tell him that I could maybe help out and like do something with him? Or should I just shut up and say nothing? And the tempting part is to say nothing. Cause especially for being self-aware, self-conscious, it's like, ah, we all don't want to be rejected. I'm just gonna look stupid if I say this. So that debate was happening in me, and I was like, as he was walking out the door, I was like, you know what? Screw it. I'm just gonna suggest it. I was like, you know, by the way, I might drop by Dublin, do some filming if you're interested. And turns out he was interested. After a couple of emails, he saw that I can offer some something, and then I came to film him and make like content for his channel. And as a way to express his gratitude, he said, well, you might as well join the Pro MMA team, because he knew I was, at that moment, I was actually considering to try to commit and become a professional fighter. So it kinda made sense. The only thing that didn't make sense was that was like the most underdog ever in that group. They were all nice to me. Like nobody beat my ass up, but I was all constantly exhausted, tired. And then I did that for like three months. But then at the end, when I started training with new guys, I was like, oh, I actually progressed a lot, but I didn't feel like that because all the other guys were also progressing and they were so way ahead of me. Eventually, I burned out from doing that experience from training with pro guys for three months, day to day. And also I did like a six-month program before and it was just too much for my body. I went too deep, too quick. And then I did I a bit of a break, like a, for about a year I was kind of training martial arts a little bit, but also just exploring what else I could do in my life. Then I recovered, started doing martial arts again, had another second MMA fight, which was a bit unfortunate because I injured and had a pinched nerve and then fought despite injury. So I don't know if that's smart, but I did it. But I had second, eventually I became interested to do boxing. And in the meantime, I was also experimenting with Aikido. I was like, okay, now I have a better base of how to, of being able to fight, how does Aikido work now? And for some time that was a hobby, like kind of just a thing I would do. I was not like, I'm gonna be the guy who reinvents Aikido. It's like a lot of people want me to be that. I don't think that's a great way to go, at least for me. But I would experiment with that. And then the latest fascinating thing that happened is this thing called the Ultimate Self-Defense Championship that we recently pulled off and did. So that's one thing. And then the other, an experience through the old Missile Defense Championship, or USDC as we call it. I rediscovered the desire to actually dive deeper into seeing if I can make Aikido functional, not to reinvent the wheel, but that's like, these are two big things which are happening right now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. And I wanna jump into those, but first I wanna go back just on the video part.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When did you start getting into video so deeply that you're traveling to different countries to film? Was that as a result of just being at this MMA gym, or was that something that happened outside of training?
Rokas Leonavicius:
I think that's the mix of skill and charm. Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Rokas Leonavicius:
But I mean, by charm, I'm just joking. I mean, you know, I think by charm I mean just sometimes just putting myself into positions where I offer my services. So, to elaborate on that, my filming journey started when I was running my Aikido dojo still, and my girlfriend suggested for me to film a YouTube video for my students. And I thought, yeah, why not? I did it and I realized, oh, actually, I like it because I always like to dabble in editing and filming. Like I was never very good at it at that time, but, but I enjoyed doing that and I realized, oh, actually I can mix that passion or that hobby with filming my stuff, which I teach anyway. Very convenient for my students. They have curriculum, but then being as ambitious as I am, very quickly I decided, you know what? I can actually do this better. I can actually do this well. And so I started pushing the envelope looking for how can I not only improve the quality but improve the content. And the Aikido content at that moment was very underserviced, I would say. Because of the traditions, it was all just, elderly Japanese super masters saying nothing, just showing techniques and that was it. You know, that's the Aikido videos you have. And I was like, well, there's so much that's happening that people need. I was always an instructor who was like, hey, let me explain this to you. If you're struggling, I'm gonna go with you. So I put that on onto my videos. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna be that young guy who's gonna get out everything he knows and not hesitate about it. So people loved it. The channel became successful. I kept pushing the envelope, then I filmed the Aikido versus MMA video where I sparred with the MMA fighter and got my ass kicked. And that blew up the channel, that blew up my...
Jeremy Lesniak:
People love those videos.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. And also too, I think I did it very just spontaneously the way I did it. But I realize now being experiencing both sides of the realm, I'm like, oh yeah, I guess, because I took it very positively. I was like, I put myself up to show look, Aikido does work and that's fine and people appreciated that. They were like, oh, look, this guy's like okay with getting his as kicked. That's kind of cool. I guess. So, eventually, I started expanding my subjects, interviewing various experts, obviously developing my skills with filming. And then when I moved to the States, I documented my MMA training, preparations for my first fight. But also, I saw that the gym was struggling with their content production. Like they had a guy, but the guy wasn't doing a great job. And my charm came in. I think that's the right word, but one day I was talking to the owner and I was like, hey, you know what, actually I could film some stuff for you if you're interested. And he was interested and I did a good enough job. And then that relationship developed. Then through that I was filming Coach Kavanagh, and then I offered him that I can film him. And then I was traveling with John and filming various events for him, like different, you know, countries, different locations, which was cool. But also then once people would understand that I'm capable at filming and I'm capable of producing stuff, I would get other offers. Like somebody would be like, hey, can you film this for me? And that for me? And for some time I did that...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Was it all martial arts stuff?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Essentially, yeah. I did a couple of side projects, but actually, I realized I'm not as passionate about it, so I wasn't leaning into it. But eventually, I would also travel for my stuff. Cause I kept elevating my level of production and content. So I would travel to meet these great people, whatever they are. Like that's the thing I did. I'm like, oh, you live here, screw that. I'm gonna get the tickets, fly to you and film the video. But then that takes time, that takes energy. And once my channel grew big enough where I realized, you know what, every moment I spend outside of filming stuff for myself when I'm filming stuff for others, I'm sacrificing my own projects. That's becoming detrimental to my progress. So now I'm super cautious about doing anything for anyone besides myself.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
But yeah, that's kind of the quick summary of the whole filming journey. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Alright. So USDC, Ultimate Self-Defense Championship.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yes. Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Where does that come from? Where does that idea start?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. So, a few years ago, that's actually kind of a tie into my desire to keep pushing the envelope and keep pushing the content. And there are moments actually, I have this interesting quality that I noticed over the years, like a pattern where I improve upon, say, content creation and I become better than I was, and I become satisfied for a moment. I'm like, oh, I'm doing so great. And then I become dissatisfied at some point. Either it becomes like the norm and then sometimes it fluctuates. And I hate the fluctuation when things are worse than they are. They're much better than they were. But now I'm used to the new norm and I'm like, oh look, this sucks. I didn't get like 50,000 views. I got only 40,000 views where, you know, two years ago I would be like, this is so great. So I become super frustrated. I would become obsessed for like a few weeks or a month that I need to level up. I need to go to the next level. I need to learn new things. I would go to courses and question what I could do better. And then I would usually come up with like the next level of content. So that would repeat itself like once a year or so. And I was in one of those moments where I was like, ah, I'm not doing good enough. I could do better. And I sat down with a notebook and I asked myself, what's the most badass, kickass content that I could create? Even if it's not like realistic, like even if I couldn't pull it off, but what would that be? What would my audience go crazy for? And I came up with the concept, well, first of all, everybody loves collabs, like YouTubers, meeting other YouTubers, filming or celebrities. I thought, okay, we need to get together. I need to get everyone together like the good, the well-known names in the martial arts YouTube space. But then I was like, if we fight each other, that's kinda silly. The way I see it, because we're of different age of different weight and different experiences, it's like you could easily more or less easily guess the winner. And it's just like, I'm not excited about that. But I was like, but what if we make it self-defense? Which is, you know, it's weight matters of course, age matters, but then there's so much that goes into it that the winner will not be clear cut. You will not know who wins until the very end. And I thought, okay, this is great. I like the concept. So I take the best YouTubers or like well known martial arts YouTubers and put them through a self defense championship and see who does best also promote critical thinking in martial arts, which was always my thing. And I come up with this concept and I have no clue how to prove it off. I'm like, okay, well this is great. It's on paper. But then one day I meet a guy in Sydney, Australia, Jeff Phillips, who runs a facility and does this type of championship for his students once per year. And I'm like, hey, you know what, what if I would bring a bunch of YouTubers? Could you like put us through the championship and then we do this thing? And he was excited and he said yes. Then Covid started. Then to make things even more fun, Jeff Phillips, the co-host, he got cancer. So we're like…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Whoa, brutal.
Rokas Leonavicius:
This is, yeah, this is not looking great for us. But Jeff went into remission. That's the term. So he got better. Then Covid started calming down. And initially I was still not sure if we can pull this off, but Jeff was like, let's do it. Let's do it, let's do it. And I was like, you know what? Let's do it. And long story short, we did it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And how did it go?
Rokas Leonavicius:
It went really well. We had only one injury.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Outta how many people?
Rokas Leonavicius:
We were six participants, but also a bunch of attackers.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. I think that's a, we call that a win. That seems pretty solid.
Rokas Leonavicius:
That's the first thing that came to my mind, like a measure of success. But obviously, there's other measures of success too. So, first of all, the experience itself was really good. Because the group, I think was very good. The content creators were we bonded together well, we played, we had a good chemistry. And I think everybody when they turned into videos, everybody enjoyed it. That this wasn't, essentially, it's like reality TV. This was like a reality show. And that's how I designed it and pro produced it where it's like you see people talking to the camera, it's like, oh, this is what I was planning to do. And then you see what happened, and then they reflect about it, like reality TV essentially. And in reality TV often people are very negative or they push for like, oh, we need conflict, we need drama. We need to put like a person who was really crappy so that everyone would become, you know, upset and et cetera. And we didn't have the drama, but we had a lot of camaraderie and people loved it. And it was great to go through that experience as well. Like to have five days of brutal self-defense challenges where you get punched and stabbed and all the stuff, all the bunch of stuff happens to you, and then you do it together with other guys. It's a bonding experience. So that was very cool. And the series itself, I think it turned out very nice. People who watched it loved it. They said that they learned a lot from it. It was also a mix between education and entertainment. So I think it was a successful project and successful enough for us to do season two, which is now the big thing, which is where, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're working on that right now?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. Which is making my life…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Tell us what's gonna be different between season one and season two?
Rokas Leonavicius:
So, first of all, we extended the roster or like the lineup of participants. So for season one, it was essentially content creators which still like I see Mike, one of the participants, former police officer, SWAT member, et cetera. Then we had a professional fighter, a retired professional fighter, me, a former Aikido black belt. So it was still like a mixed group, which was interesting. But now for season two, we have like a professional UFC fighter who's an active fighter, like an up-and-coming fighter. Then we have a…
Jeremy Lesniak:
You can name these names. I know who you're talking about.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, okay, okay. I just wanna be…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, it's okay.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Nice to the audience who's listening, but yeah, I'll name the names. So, there's Natan Levy, he's an up-and-coming fighter, like the only Israeli fighter in UFC who's also a karate black belt which makes it even more cooler. Then, I'm not participating this time because I fully devote myself to directing and producing. But then we have Jeff Chan, the professional fighter who's also content creator coming back again. We have Ranton who is a content creator, but he has a different background. He is a Shaolin disciple. So he lived in the Shaolin monastery for I think a year or so, and he trained Kung Fu maybe longer. He trained Kung Fu and he barely does any combat sports, so it's gonna be interesting to see how he does in all those situations.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
He's just a very fun guy, so he's gonna be part of that. Who else do we have? We have a master player.
Jeremy Lesniak:
One of my favorite, if what I looked at one of my favorite people who's been on the show, Jesse.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yes. Jesse. Damn. He's like one of the biggest stars.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
And I just didn't mention him right now, so yes, Jesse. Actually, Jesse was supposed to be on season one, but he couldn't make it cause of scheduling issues.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. And for folks that might be in the audience, Jesse who? Cause you know.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Jesse Enkamp.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, Jesse Enkamp. Karate nerd.
Jeremy Lesniak:
He's a great guy.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Karate black belt. Great guy. We're good friends. We meet each other regularly, so it's easier to get on board people who you know already. But he was supposed to be there for season one, but he couldn't make it. Now he's there for season two, so really exciting. He has some combat sports experience, but his primary focus is karate, and he's a actually a pretty big and and strong dude.
Jeremy Lesniak:
He's a strong guy. Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
He's a very strong guy. Yeah. So, it's gonna be interesting how he does. We also have a basketball player, who he has a TikTok following, but the most important point is that he's a tall, athletic person. And the reason we really wanted to get him on board is because season one proved to us that size and weight matters even more than we thought. And the hypothetical question came up. Okay, so what if you get a, just a physically fit, big guy? How much does that help you in self-defense, how much does that take care of? And he's training right now. He's going to train for, he's gonna have six months of self-defense training. Like he's training with a co-host with his students. They have like a full-time self-defense school. So he's learning the skills. But that again, that makes it even more fascinating me because we now have an athletic tall guy who has six months of training.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Which I assume everybody's gonna have many, many years. He's the outlier with six months exactly.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cause you don't wanna just throw him in with going what are hands and how do they work?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. Right, right, right. So, all of that is going to come to that point and see, okay, so how does he do against, compared to like a UFC fighter? How does he do against, you know, a karate or a martial arts guy who's much smaller and did do martial arts, combat sports, but did traditional martial arts? So, yeah, I think it's quite a fascinating lineup and I'm wondering if I forgot anything else. I need to look at the picture or maybe…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, where if, you know, I've been at this point people are…
Rokas Leonavicius:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. I wanna know more. So, you know.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's make sure we get that out there. Where can people go to check out season one and how do they learn more about season two?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yes, so season one is on Martial Arts Journey channel. That's the name of my channel. And all the content is there and because some of the episodes are named differently and they're like episode one, episode two, episode three, but they're not necessarily named like that. There's a playlist where you click on the playlist on the main channel and then you get all the episodes one by one. And yeah, if people like it, usually they watch them. So yeah, hopefully people will go and enjoy it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, it's clear you put a lot of time into it and you know, this episode's gonna stay up indefinitely, but if I remember correctly, right now you are fundraising for season two.
Rokas Leonavicius:
True, true. I'm very happy that we managed to reach the financial goal of it. It was kinda… thank you. It was kinda a crazy and stressful and funny situation way where I knew that I spent all my savings for season one and I got a little bit from crowdfunding, but that was by far not as much as I needed. And then I realized how much money I need per season two, and I don't have the budget yet, or I didn't have personally. And we need to film season two quickly because at the end of the year, they are going to demolish the facility where it's happening.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why?
Rokas Leonavicius:
I think it's a government building. It's not like owned by Jeff Phillips and…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Rokas Leonavicius:
And they want to like restructure it or something like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Alright. They're gonna put something else up. Okay. It's not like a condemned building, you know, the roof isn't falling in.
Rokas Leonavicius:
No. It used to be like a TV studio or something, like government TV studio. And they abandoned it like completely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Rokas Leonavicius:
When you walk around you see like cups of tea, which were standing there for like six years, which is one of the reasons we did the zombie apocalypse thing because it's like the perfect conditions to do a zombie apocalypse.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. So, the building's falling in a little bit?
Rokas Leonavicius:
A little bit like, well, the good part is that we can do anything we want. Like, nobody cares. It's gonna get demolished so we can pick a wall, destroy a window, whatever, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, cool.
Rokas Leonavicius:
It's gonna be fine. So we can go all out. Especially right now, season two is gonna be just before it gets demolished, but we need to fill in the quick, so we need to get the finances and I decided to, there was like, play safe or like go, go hard and go all in. I knew the amount of money I need, like the bare minimum, which is still a hefty amount of money. And I thought in crowdfunding you can choose like flexible goal or set goal. And flexible goal is where whatever money you get, you take, it doesn't matter if you reach your goal or not. And the set goal is if you don't reach your goal, you don't get the money, everybody gets their money back. And it's very stressful to organize this whole thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
And I was stressed because it was stressful to organize season one as well because I was always thinking about money and how will I make sure that I get enough for plane tickets and lodging and food and everything. It was a constant source of stress. And now, I realize if I'm gonna put flexible goal and if I'm not gonna collect the money, I need the bare minimum, I'm gonna live in a constant state of hell where I'm gonna always think like, oh no, I still need so much more money. And, but then I would still be in a safe place where I would, I would know I would still get something. But then I thought, you know what? I'll do the other way. I'll go the other way. I'll just say, we either do this or we don't do this. We either collect this amount of money…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Kind of commit.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. We either collect this money or not. And if not, it's not gonna happen. And it was risky. It was scary to do. Because what if we get like 90% and we don't reach the hundred percent and I don't get nothing and nothing happens? But I decided, you know what? Have faith trust, because a lot of people were asking for season two, and I thought, okay, well you're asking it. Let's, let's make it work together then. And in seven days we reached the goal and I was like, oh my God. This is like crazy. And it's still like slowly going up, but obviously people now know it's gonna happen.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's really impressive. It sounds like a testament to how much people enjoyed season one.
Rokas Leonavicius:
I think so. It was like a really cool moment for me. Just like that day when it hit the number, I was just sitting here in front of my computer. I was like, oh man, I guess it was worth it. It's like, like as you said, I felt like, okay, this is a sign that everything is going well. So it was cool. So
Jeremy Lesniak:
So what's next? Are you already thinking of what season three might be?
Rokas Leonavicius:
So there's two, in a way, yes. Essentially, there's two things on my plate right now. So one is we are not closed from the idea of multiple seasons. But we're also, our decision is to go step by step, like see how it goes, and then make a decision. So if season two goes well, which I think it's possible, I think a lot of people are still just discovering USDC and they're like, oh my God, how did I just find it now? I love this. So meaning a lot of people just have no idea about it. And because in YouTube there is this curse where you release a video, a certain amount of people watch it, and you have this internal feeling and impression that, okay, that's all the people that are interested in this. Nobody else cares. Nobody else will ever watch this video. But then, reality is nobody will ever see everything. And so you may sometimes create something, which a lot of people would love, but they just never get to touch it. So that's actually one of the reasons we want to do season two. So that season two and the new competitors would attract a new audience, they're following and they naturally would get acquainted with both season one and season two and the concept. So, but still there's a feeling like, okay, we're not sure if this is gonna work out or not, so let's do our best. And once season two comes out, if it's successful, then probably we'll go for season three and we'll switch locations. Probably not in Australia anymore because it’s hard to make an event in Australia when no one else is from Australia.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Why did you pick out Australia?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Because of the host, the co-host, Jeff Phillips.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Rokas Leonavicius:
He has the facility.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Rokas Leonavicius:
He has the expertise. He's there already and the trained attackers are there. And he has also…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Makes sense.
Rokas Leonavicius:
A portion of the equipment. But mainly, the facility is just so good for that. Like we have the whole warehouse, like it's not really a warehouse, but like the whole facility, huge building lots of like office areas and the cinema area and the basketball court. It’s like perfect.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Got it.
Rokas Leonavicius:
And that's why we really wanted to do this before it gets demolished. And then we're gonna have to think about it. But to make sure I answered the question fully, so that's one part of the plate. So it makes season two and then think about if it's successful, continue to make season three, four, et cetera, with new contenders and constant, improved content. But then the other thing what I'm excited about as well, I mentioned that I used to. More or less play with Aikido in combat sports and just do it as a hobby. Like, okay, let's see what happens. But then, I have not actually spoken about this before. This is the first time I'm going on record, but I think this is the perfect moment. I think the plan is that the first video is going to go on Saturday. So I think it's great timing. So, anyway, so, after USDC, I really pushed for like production quality and storytelling and everything. And people spoke about it. It seems like it worked out, like the production quality was the next level. And I was like, shoot, okay. There's a lot of new people who came into my channel and they're used to this level of production, quality and storytelling. It's like, I can't just do some random videos right now. I need to come up with something great. And I realized that the next content that I want to make in between seasons of USDC is to kind of make like a spinoff. You know, the whole Marvel universe and superheroes. It's very popular these days. And I guess there's a bit of a concept from there where it's like you have the Avengers and then you have, you know, like Captain America 1, 2, 3, like, so what's happening for Captain America between these things? And because the channel, my channel is essentially about me and my journey, I decided that it's time for me to instead of just making it as a hobby to devote myself more because a lot of people are interested. Okay, so how would function like Aikido look like? What does it take to make it functional? So I decided that I will focus more on that journey without having a concrete result. Like again, I want to put on record that it's not my goal to make like a new style of Aikido, but it's the journey that matters for me. And my plan is to make it into like a reality show as well. Like a serious. So my first episode is gonna be a recap of what happened until now, like the origin story, so to say, so to speak. So my Aikido versus MMA video. How I got my ass kicked, how it made me question it. So the first few episodes, like for anyone who, because that video is already old, it's like six years old. It was made by my standards of that time, and I look at it now, I'm like, oh, this video could be so much better. So it's my redemption video to make it the way I can right now. To tell a good story, to explain what really happened there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
And to get new audience in. And then after a few episodes after like everyone's included into what's happening, continue the journey from now, going to experts, seeing what they can offer to make Aikido better, what works, what doesn't work, how to improve it, and just document it episode by episode as that journey goes, how it continues as a continual journey a.nd to see where it goes instead of, beforehand it was for me, it was just like, ah, I make like one video about Kung Fu and one video about boxing, and then I make a video trying out Aikido. But now my idea is to like really commit to this journey. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're not the only one working on this and I think it's a fascinating subject. We've had a couple people on the show who, and it's not just Aikido, honestly. We've had a number of people on the show for whom they take what they're given and they question it just as you did and say, wait a second. Maybe there's more. Maybe there's a better way. Maybe my instructors and their instructors and their instructors actually didn't know what they were doing and we've gotta find a way to get back way back. Maybe there's something there. And I think the more people working on things like this, like you, I think the better we all are.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We all train for different reasons, of course.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And being able to take those why’s in different directions I think is really great.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. Yeah. I think, well, initially I was surprised by how universal this journey is because and also too other people were, especially even people who had the exact same experience like I did, they thought their martial is one thing. They tested it, it didn't work and they were excommunicated essentially, like it's a very common story. But then that was, got those stories like six years ago. As far as I can tell, I was the first one to document it so publicly and openly, that journey. And a lot of people who saw it were like, oh dude, you're saying the exact same things that I went through or, or you're going through the same things I went through and I thought, I'm alone. And I have like hundreds of emails from people who, who all thought they're alone. And now I think it's, we're in a better spot because as you said, like there are a number of people who do that publicly. Question pressure test martial arts bring critical thinking. So I think people who start to question their martial arts find support and realization that they're not alone much quicker, which is great. But still, to some degree I am sometimes surprised. Like even maybe UFC's not the best answer, but still was like a groundbreaking event for martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Rokas Leonavicius:
Where suddenly we get this ninjitsu guy and sumo guy and all we're different types of martial arts coming in and eventually fighting a formula of what works best for fighting under those conditions. Which, you know, becomes like super powerful essentially for as a fighting form. And so it becomes quite evident of, it seems like it becomes quite evident of what does not work. But then there's still a lot of people like the infamous ma dojos, where it's like they do the craziest things, which if you have any grasp of fighting, you look at it and you're like this is not gonna work. You know, people are like Aikido, you know, people are not gonna fall for you so easily. The dark side of that is that you have I like to get make a distinction between explanation and justification. It's like the explanation would be, so why is everyone falling so easily? The explanation would be, well, because part of that is yes, because if you're not gonna fall, it's gonna hurt. But it's not only about that, but then the explanation, part of that explanation would be, well, we're falling because that's the way we're taught and that's the way, you know, our sensei and sensei was taught and we're just keeping up with the tradition. It's like, that would be one of the explanations. But usually gets justifications, which are like, well, as I said, like it's part true, but part not true. It's like, if you will not fall like this, if you will not submit to me, if you'll resist, your arm and wrist will break. And it's like, I tried it. It doesn't break. Like, it's like, I mean, it can, I'm not saying it can, you have to be, but you have to be like a bad person to destroy that elbow. But usually if people really resist, they'll spin out of it. It's like there's, it's not abs as absolute as it's told in like Aikido. And there's a lot of other moments where it's like justification and justifications. It's like, oh, it's like this is too deadly, so you can't use it in MMA. You know, it's like this is so dangerous that we only practice it with cooperative partners and there's no way to practice it with a resisting partner. It's like, maybe there's some truth to that, but it's probably not all true. So, but my point is, since fighting became so popular and it's so mainstream right now, it would seem like people would be more aware of, they would look at something and be like, okay, well this clearly doesn't work. Let's go somewhere else. But still, you get a lot of schools and a lot of instructors and still a lot of videos where somebody does something super crazy and they have a falling, they have a full dojo. I'm expecting and hoping and trusting that it's harder to get people through the door now, and probably like a specific type of people go there or they don't stay as long. But it still exists. And so my point is as well with me and the other guys questioning it, martial arts, trying to make them functional publicly. I am certain the world of martial arts is evolving. People are more clear. Okay. This just tradition. This is more for our own personal experience. This is for fighting, this is for etiquette, et cetera, et cetera. But there's still a lot of work to do. I think that's what I'm trying to say.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. And the work will never be done because…
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's a constantly moving target. Society is constantly shifting. Who knows what the next technology will be? You know, what will virtual reality do for martial arts training? What will full immersion with tactile response do for martial arts training? You know, at some point will be there.
Rokas Leonavicius:
True.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So really cool. I'm glad you're doing this work. If people wanna find you, you know, what are all the websites and the social media stuff?
Rokas Leonavicius:
Yeah. I think the best way and where most of my effort goes into is the YouTube channel called Martial Arts Journey. There's like a website, martialartsjourney.com, and then if somebody goes there, they'll find like information and the breakdown of the defense championship. But YouTube is essentially the place.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Awesome. Now it's your shot to leave them hanging I guess. What are your final words to the audience?
Rokas Leonavicius:
I think there's a few different ways I could approach this, but because we spoke about that whole functionality and questioning, it's such a big theme for me. I think I just want to clarify a couple of things in that is that I went through the path of being really extreme. EIt’s like either this martial art is the best or it sucks, which a lot of people tend to do with martial arts, but it's like, either it works or it doesn't work, or either this is great for self defense or not. And I think the best path is still like the middle path to make sure that we question and we ask ourselves. We never take something just like somebody said, this is the best. We don't delete it just because somebody said it's the best, but we carefully look at it. We respect educated opinion, we respect ex experts, but we always also go through our checking process. And as long as people go for that, I think a lot of martial arts have a lot of great things to offer. Like, we don't need to eradicate Aikido. Aikido has a place in the world, people can enjoy it for what it is. But the point, the most important point, I think is to be aware of what it is and what it's not. And what was unfortunate for me was that by both my instructors, I was promised that I will become a capable fighter and self-defense expert by learning only this. And I think that was not true, but other people have that same belief given to them. But as long as we're clear of what is what, and we make sure that we go to the right place for what our needs are, I think yeah, a lot of martial arts can offer a lot of cool things.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thanks for sticking around. Did you enjoy today's episode? I certainly did. You know, one of my favorite things is that people take martial arts, they see what's going on and they say, I can make it better, and then they try to make it better. I love when people try to make things better, and the more important something is to me, the more I wanna see people trying to make it better. Not everyone's gonna succeed in making it better, that's okay, but they're making an effort. And I love being able to support folks who say, you know what? We can improve this. Because as I see it, there are two ways that we can support martial arts in general. We can pass it on or we can improve it. There's nothing wrong with either one. Both are necessary. Everyone can improve it in parallel. Doesn't work that way. But when we have someone who is spending a lot of time and energy improving, they're gonna get my support. So Rokas, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate you. Listeners, audience, viewers, whatever you want me to call you, make sure you check out today's sponsor, Safest Family on the Block. If you haven't yet, do it. If you are not following them on social media, do it. You need to. I'm asking you to. It's important. And of course, check out the book that Jason put together with the code whistlekick23 to save 25% off. It's a great, great book. The show's great. Jason's great. If you like this show, you'll like what he's doing. I would, you know what? I'll bet you if you check out what he's doing, if you don't dig it, you let me know and I'll, I don't know, give you money, something. I feel that confident. If you wanna reach out to me, you can do so. jeremy@whistlekick.com. You can follow us whistlekick on social media with the handles at @whistlekick everywhere you can think of. If you have feedback, guest suggestions, anything like that, let us know. Until next time, train hard smile and have a great day.