Episode 1060 - Sensei Derek Wayne Johnson
In this episode Jeremy chats with Sensei Derek Johnson about his training, iconic martial artists like Fumio Demura and the impact of the Karate Kid franchise.
Sensei Derek Wayne Johnson - Episode 1060
SUMMARY
In this engaging conversation, Jeremy Lesniak is joined by Sensei Derek Wayne Johnson who explores the rich landscape of martial arts, touching on the cultural significance of Texas as a martial arts hub, the evolution of training styles, and the profound impact of instructors on students' lives.
They delve into the philosophy of martial arts as a language, the connection between martial arts and film, and the legacy of iconic figures like Mr. Miyagi. The discussion also highlights the importance of community and the future of martial arts in a modern context, emphasizing the need for practical application alongside theoretical knowledge.
TAKEAWAYS
Texas is a significant hub for martial arts.
Martial arts can be viewed as a language with accents.
Training in different styles enriches martial arts experience.
The role of a sensei is crucial in a student's journey.
Martial arts can profoundly impact personal development.
The connection between martial arts and film is deep and meaningful.
Instructors often embody the spirit of martial arts.
The evolution of martial arts reflects changes in society.
Community support is vital for martial arts schools.
Practical application of techniques is essential for mastery.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:00 Martial Arts as a Language
03:28 The Journey of a Martial Artist
5:25 The Importance of Respect in Learning
07:53 Finding Roots in Different Styles
10:33 The Nerdy Side of Martial Arts
13:17 The Impact of Early Influences
15:47 Building a Martial Arts Community
18:26 The Evolution of Martial Arts Training
24:57 The Memory of a Martial Arts Legend
27:35 Building Relationships in Martial Arts
28:35 Remembering a Mentor: The Impact of Mr. Lamont
30:49 Acts of Kindness: A Teacher's Legacy
33:14 Mission-Driven Martial Arts Schools
37:49 The Essence of Mr. Miyagi
38:53 The Influence of Film on Martial Arts
43:53 The Real Miyagi: Fumio Demura's Legacy
46:56 Future Aspirations in Martial Arts Documentaries
50:47 Meeting Legends: A Surreal Experience
51:37 Exploring Film: John G. Abelson and Streaming Options
52:40 The Art of Storytelling in Film
53:35 Rocky and Stallone: Behind the Scenes
55:12 Martial Arts and Movies: A Personal Journey
56:11 Dream Collaborations: Who Would You Work With?
57:32 Sequels and Revivals: The Last Dragon
01:00:17 The Impact of Iconic Films on Martial Arts
01:02:49 Generational Shifts in Martial Arts Appreciation
01:05:19 Closing Thoughts: The Future of Martial Arts
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Derek Wayne Johnson (05:27.213)
Just remind me of, and I've listened to some of your shows, what style that you practice.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:35.332)
Okay, when people ask me, I say, I do martial arts. And they say, okay, but what kind? And if they make me, say karate. And then if they really make me, say, it has, it's Okinawan philosophy.
Derek Wayne Johnson (05:53.804)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:54.638)
I've trained, we have Bill in common. We actually have Frank in common from your form.
Derek Wayne Johnson (05:57.858)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:07.444)
grew up in in Kyokushin and Ishinru and spent a bunch of time in ITF Taekwondo. I've done bits of Filipino martial arts, Kampo, Judo, BJJ, stand-up Jiu-Jitsu, smidges of Kobudo, even some sword work like
a punch and kick and swing things at people. Yeah. Yeah, it's, you've got to, and you know, maybe this is, maybe this is where we start. So maybe we sort of unofficially or start, unofficially or starting here and all, cause I'll pose the question. I believe this is, this is maybe a little bit of peek behind the curtain. I find that the questions people ask of others tells you something about what's important to them.
Derek Wayne Johnson (06:30.433)
Nice.
Derek Wayne Johnson (06:55.617)
I agree with that.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:55.722)
Because you're interested, right? So you're interested in stylistic differences, maybe because you like the separation, or maybe, like me, you appreciate the overlap and the similarity.
Derek Wayne Johnson (07:11.445)
Absolutely. I feel like, you know, if you meet, say you go to a tournament and you meet a martial artist with no patches, no logo, just in a gi, I always find it interesting because it's like, well, you know, what style do you practice? And I always appreciate the different answers because we're all there at the same place. We're all there to compete and
Jeremy Lesniak (07:33.168)
Hmm.
Derek Wayne Johnson (07:40.33)
Sometimes I find that like when I ask that question, I also learn maybe a martial art I didn't know existed or a style perhaps and I'm like, wait, what does that mean? What is that? And so I find it interesting, but yeah, the overlap, absolutely. And also what someone's foundation is or base is always interesting, but really it's just finding like if we have anything in common and it sounds like you and I do, which is great.
for conversation, but yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:13.759)
I remember when this was an early theory and what's kind of fun about martial arts radio for me is that it's conversations with people that help me process my own thoughts. And then I'll talk to somebody who's really cool and smart and they say something cool and smart and it makes me go, I gotta think about that some more. And then I think about it and then it becomes part of the conversation the next time that subject comes up. And if we go back a ways.
Somebody brought up the idea that you could think of martial arts as a language.
or as language is and that specific martial arts are a language. And what I found really cool about that idea was the notion of an accent. Because I grew up in karate, did a few flavors of karate that were all, the way they were presented was all similar enough. But then I started doing taekwondo.
And my instructor wouldn't have referred to it this way, but he said, you look like a karate guy doing taekwondo, which he understood because he was originally a karate guy. But he didn't have, if I remember correctly, as much time in karate before he made that transition. It was an accent.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:39.396)
I'm working on learning Spanish, I'm always gonna have an accent.
Derek Wayne Johnson (09:42.892)
Right.
good way to look at it.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:45.6)
And you've done a number of martial arts. What did you start?
Derek Wayne Johnson (09:50.637)
So American karate is the style of martial arts that I've been in for over 28 years.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:57.68)
Okay, so do you find that if you're doing something else, you are bringing in some concepts or some movement patterns that maybe the instructor's like.
Adjust right not adjust because you didn't know it but adjust because your body wants to move in a certain way
Derek Wayne Johnson (10:21.079)
No, absolutely. mean, you know, even mentioning Bill Superfoot Wallace, we're both part of the Superfoot system, which I'm sure we'll talk about. I was just with him recently at a seminar and he and I were talking even like my hook kick, which I'm part of the Superfoot system. And we can talk about systems versus styles.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:45.072)
We can talk about how how superfoot hates both of our hook kicks.
Derek Wayne Johnson (10:48.557)
Well, here's the thing. He actually liked my hook kick. But I was throwing it a little too on the inside versus going around the guard. And I realized that that is part of, again, the style versus the system and how you're saying adjustments, even like, for example, the step side kick.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:52.323)
Okay, we don't have that in common then.
Derek Wayne Johnson (11:16.001)
A lot of times I just slide up with my back foot. don't even step. Exactly. And so he would kind of, we would talk about that and we would adjust. So, and right now I'm also recently started experimenting with Shotokan, which by the way, my style of American karate is pretty much rooted in Shotokan. And I'm seeing a lot of similarities, but those adjustments you're talking about, it's definitely there.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:20.073)
I was raised too.
Derek Wayne Johnson (11:44.922)
And I find that, you know, how you said we're dealing with languages and accents. Yes, you refine it and you do what is best for you. But when you're in someone else's dojo and you're trying to learn their style, system, flavor, accent, language, it's appropriate to adjust and hear them out and try to do it their way. Doesn't mean you have to do it.
when you go home, but it is sort of a sign of respect.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:19.888)
For me, if I'm gonna put on a white belt, which by the way is my favorite thing to do, I love standing in the back of the room wearing a white belt, no one's expecting anything of me, even better if they don't know initially that I train, like I'm not gonna sandbag and be a jerk, but I wanna learn with as much of an open mind as I can. I've decided this, it's usually a person more so than a school, but if this person has something that I wanna learn, I want to...
think I'm gonna use the word submit to that educational process as completely as possible. And for me, that means doing my best to forget that I know other things. Being as ignorant as possible, how do you punch? And I might even ask questions that seem dumb of people because if I say, we'll make a fist.
Most people are gonna get pretty close right like what's the what was the one thing a non trained person might screw up they tend to put their they might put their thumb in the fist. What outside of that date get pretty darn close but if i asked you do you know any other ways to make a fist you could probably come up with half a dozen.
But the untrained person doesn't tend to come up with those nuance, you know, we got some angle in the wrist or maybe one knuckles a little more pronounced than the other or, you know, thumbs stacked on top, something like that. So I might ask a dumb question because I'm trying to force the old knowledge like to hide for a minute. Like, OK, how do you make a fist? And they look at me funny. I'm like, no, just I don't know anything. Tell me.
Derek Wayne Johnson (14:01.293)
Yeah, that's actually, you know, it's Recently, when I took my first formal Shotokan class, the, and again, 28 and a half years of American karate, I just wanted to see what Shotokan was all about and, you know, quote unquote, find the roots, I suppose. And it was just myself and the instructor. And he said, I'm just going to give you a formal first class.
And said, would you like me to wear a white belt? I would love to. And he actually said, was like, no, no, no, no. I understand why you're asking and I appreciate it, but I would like for you to wear your black belt. You know, you've earned it. I said, okay. I brought a white belt in my bag, by the way, just in case. just, how's that? Ooh, good point. Good point. Well, I admittedly, I did wear it.
Jeremy Lesniak (14:49.466)
You know how you solve that? I just don't even bring my black belt. Yeah, yeah, I don't even bring my black belt.
Derek Wayne Johnson (14:58.593)
but I had the OK and the white belt on reserve. I put on an all white gi and it was just, know, everything you're saying. And I just opened up and just was a sponge. And I learned so much in the roots, in the technical aspects, even, you you mentioned different ways to punch.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:01.946)
Sure, sure.
Derek Wayne Johnson (15:26.389)
He was showing me a different way to rotate the wrist and when to rotate it, things like that before impact that I had not thought of. And I found that to be extremely interesting that, and then he said, well, let's do, what's your first kata? And we call it H4 number one. He goes,
We don't call it that. know what you're talking about. Let's do it together. And we did our first foundational Cata together. It's the same thing. I forgot what it's called there. I haven't taken enough classes yet, but there you go. I think it was, yes. And it's the H pattern. Exactly. And so it was just one of those like, okay. I see the similarity. This is pretty cool. The stances were different and whatnot, but
Jeremy Lesniak (15:59.898)
We hey on showdown. Are we? Which is probably where the H and H form comes from.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:13.189)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (16:18.815)
It's all kind of the same. Fighting is all kind of the same when you get down to it, but it's not, you know, exactly. Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:27.076)
You can only hit somebody so many ways. And some of them make sense. Some of them don't, so you probably don't do those. And then some of what's left is usually a better choice than some of the others. And so we spend most of our time on those things. And the ques- you know, the-
Derek Wayne Johnson (16:36.407)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (16:46.572)
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:52.858)
When you're talking about this first Shotokan class, what I'm hearing is, he was answering questions I didn't even know to ask.
Derek Wayne Johnson (17:03.541)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:04.464)
right which is such a cool thing like you know to the audience you may not be a hotel there's an apartment back poster behind derek i've seen his bio i'm gonna i'm take take a leap here and guess that if i say you have a at least a nerdy aspect to yourself you're not gonna be offended.
Derek Wayne Johnson (17:26.769)
no, not at all. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:28.666)
Right. So, know, when when I think and shout out to Jesse Encamp for for coining the term martial arts nerd, but I think martial arts nerdism is a lot broader than people realize, because most of us. If if we want to just get in there and and and knock it out, we're going to go do boxing. It's a pretty simple, not easy, simple.
curriculum.
But if I enjoy a lot of detail and a lot of options and what we could call nerdy things, I probably end up something that has more punches and kicks and stances. once we start talking about, here's a nerdy word, permutations of the ways we can put all those things together, it becomes a very big number very quickly. And that's fun for me. And you're smiling as I'm talking about this. So I know this is fun for you. And most of our audience, we've built a certain approach.
in the way we run these shows. It's most of you as well. You find value in the nerdy and the questions that we get to ask and answer from our training. So that's so cool.
Derek Wayne Johnson (18:42.357)
Yeah, I'm definitely 100 % a karate nerd, a martial arts nerd, a movie nerd, but I always tell my wife, I'm like, but I'm not a nerd. And she's like, hmm, yeah, you are. I'm like, no, I'm not a nerd.
I just have nerd tendencies and she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, keep telling yourself that. But I've never felt like a nerd. I just definitely can geek out on what I'm into. So guess by definition that makes me a nerd.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:08.697)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:14.416)
Different people have these different definitions for nerd and geek and dweeb and dork. There was a great SNL sketch. It was called like geek dweeb or spaz. It goes back a while. It's a good one. I don't know if we're going to link that in the show notes. It has nothing to with martial arts. if you haven't, I'm sure you can find that clip on YouTube somewhere. So 28 and Change with American Karate. But you don't look.
you look a little older than, you know, let's say 30, 32.
Derek Wayne Johnson (19:47.117)
Oh wow. You are making me feel very happy today. I am 42 years old.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:52.016)
I'm not making so because this leads in the question is not how old are you? The question is. It I'm going to guess you're old enough that starting martial arts was your choice. When I if I thought you were 3233 years old, I would say maybe your parents just put you in martial arts like it wasn't a choice, but I'm pretty sure that that was a choice. was something that was important to you. And so there there's the question. Why? Why did you want to start training?
Derek Wayne Johnson (20:04.101)
absolutely.
Derek Wayne Johnson (20:20.877)
So, great question. And it's one that you would think that us martial artists get asked a lot, and we actually don't. So this is a good one.
Jeremy Lesniak (20:30.864)
People ask what and they ask when. Why is my favorite question?
Derek Wayne Johnson (20:33.237)
Yeah, they never ask why. I love it. So, I became enamored with the martial arts by way of, the karate kid, which most people of our generation would say also, you know, Bruce Lee blood sport, you name it, all the eighties and nineties stuff, guilty as sin. However,
I did, sports and you know, did that whole thing, team sports and whatnot. But I was fascinated with martial arts. There was one, I'm from a small town of like 6,000 people in East Texas. And there was one karate school. And it was on, like, it was just like a movie. was, was like,
in the downtown small town so it's like a square we call it the square and it's in this old building and I always wanted to go but I never did so busy with other sports and whatnot and then one day in eighth grade I'm 13 at the time almost 14 in my earth science class I'll never forget a flyer I think it was yellow was on my desk for American karate
And I was like, what? It was going to be taught at the local college. I was like, what? This is, oh my, oh my goodness. I could not wait to get home. Gave it to my parents. I was like, I have to do this. Like, please take me to sign up. And my dad was a little hesitant. He had dabbled with Shotokan and was just worried like his 13 year old son was going to get his nose busted and you know, that kind of stuff. But my mom really knew, oh, he's dead serious.
I just knew, like even before that, let me back up for the why, not the how, but the why. I did get, I was very small child. As a matter of fact, when I played baseball, they couldn't even find pants that fit me. That's how small I was. And so naturally,
Derek Wayne Johnson (22:50.571)
you know, sometimes guys would jump me the school bus or on the school bus or waiting for the bus or in the gym or excuse me, not the gym in PE class, things like that. And this sounds really ridiculous to say, but I've never lost a fight. And I really hate saying that it is factual, but I've never lost a fight. Sounds boastful. Well, so I, I knew I had it in me.
And so I was getting in fights. And again, sounds so cliche. Well, I realized I was pretty good at it, even though I didn't want to fight because who wants to get in fights all the time in school? And so I would go to the library and there were books on karate, just like in the karate kid when Daniel LaRusso is learning out of a book before Miyagi starts teaching him.
Again, it sounds so cliche, but this is my life. And so I would study, like really break down pre-internet, you know, there was no way I could see anything about martial arts outside of movies or maybe ESPN had kickboxing on or whatnot, or the USA Open, even K-1 kickboxing, et cetera. So I would like really learn, as you said earlier, the nerd part.
of karate, like the techniques, and I was fascinated. So when I hit, when I found that, or was given that flyer in earth science class in eighth grade, I ran with it. And the first night of class, I was hooked. I've been hooked ever since. It'll be 29 years in this coming January. And now at 42,
Jeremy Lesniak (24:39.12)
That's awesome.
Derek Wayne Johnson (24:43.177)
It's just, I still feel like that 13 year old at times. But that's why there was just something burning inside for those 13 years that I had to explore and I did and I was hooked.
Jeremy Lesniak (25:05.006)
Mike, I'm gonna guess that despite being small, you were good, also good at other sports.
Derek Wayne Johnson (25:12.211)
I was decent. So football, was too small. I always joke, I quit football and then got muscular at the time in high school. But when I was playing, I wasn't muscular. I was just a hundred pounds of nothing. Wasn't that good. Wasn't that interested. Baseball was decent. I was fast, scrappy, never hit a home run over the fence, but...
hit in the park home runs because I was fast, but I wasn't powerful enough to get it over the fence. Track cross country, decent. Everything was, I was even on the powerlifting team in high school at 126 pounds. Wasn't that strong though? I mean, let me take that back. I was strong, but it's not like I was lifting what the big guys were lifting. So I would say I was decent all around.
But when it came to martial arts, that's where not only my mind was and my heart, but that's where my physical abilities really were shown.
Jeremy Lesniak (26:18.768)
And that's what I was guessing. So the reason I asked my question about you being good at other sports is I'm hearing a kid that was probably developed early in terms of physical awareness, proprioception, that sort of stuff. But because you weren't a just tell me what to do when I'm going to do it guy, right? That's not you.
you needed to be more mentally engaged, creatively engaged, conventional team sports only allow for so much of that, right? Like if you're on a team, you kind of got to do what the team needs. But if you're a martial artist, right, one of my favorite things set, and this is not my saying about martial arts, is generally speaking anyway, it is an individual sport done in a team set.
Derek Wayne Johnson (27:15.009)
Yeah, that's very true.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:15.972)
Can i love that because it's i get to do my thing but i'm doing my own thing next to you and you're doing your own thing the harder and better you do your thing the more i'm inspired to push myself and we all get to do the individual thing but benefit from the group dynamic and i think it's it's. Anybody who's ever been in a bigger class with great energy and then contrast that with a smaller class with.
Weaker energy, you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's so powerful.
Derek Wayne Johnson (27:49.144)
That's true, you and you mentioned the class size. So I love the big class, you know, in the dojo. It's great. Competitions there, but I also love when there's a smaller class.
And a lot of times I like to mix it up in my martial arts training when I'm going to classes. I know exactly what the big class is, what the small class is. And I get both of those in each week because they both have just certain elements to them. You know, if you're just in a large class or just in a small class, you're actually missing one side of the coin. So I like to mix it up when it comes to that.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:38.288)
I want to acknowledge something that I'm sure a chunk of the audience might still well, I'm sure a few of you are still hung up on this and it's going back to when you said you went into Earth science class and there was a yellow flyer on your desk and I bet at least three quarters of the school owners out there went wait. How did how did how did your instructor get a flyer in the school on the desk? I want to know how to do that, right?
Derek Wayne Johnson (29:02.001)
You know, it's funny. absolutely, sort of, sort of know the answer. so my school, I'll take it back, originates, it's called the original school is the American Society of Karate, founded by Mr. Bill Gray out of Houston. And from there, a lot of different schools, we call it ASK for short.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:05.358)
And if you know the answer, they're going to be thrilled.
Derek Wayne Johnson (29:31.274)
ASK, different schools developed, different black belts of his went off and created their own area of Texas pretty much, all over Texas. So you had Austin Society of Karate, Hill Country Karate, Red Tiger Karate, et cetera, et cetera. And then you get to where I'm from, we had the East Texas American Society of Karate. Under my...
specific instructor, the late great Robert Lamont. He just passed away this past January. And, thank you, great man, great man. And so, you know, speaking of lineage, there's, in my lineage, there's Bill Superfoot Wallace, Bill Gray, Robert Lamont, myself. And so, in the East Texas American Society of Karate, that, obviously it's in the name, was the East Texas area, the location.
And back then that started in the early 90s. Mr. Gray started ASK in the 1970. So this is 1997 at this point. So ASK is 27 years old at the time, but the ETASK started in 92. So it's only five years old at the time. So their model,
was parks and rec and ISDs. And it worked. And hardly any, if any, brick and mortar. So a lot of students, a lot of locations, low overhead. So I never, until recently, and I'm talking about 2025,
never trained in a brick and mortar dojo in my 28 and a half years of American karate. It was always on a hardwood gymnasium floor or something of the sort. So when COVID hit, Mr. Lamont had to move out of the ISDs and really focus on parks and rec because the ISDs were just like, hey, we just can't risk, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:44.272)
I assume that means inter-school or inner-school, in-school, independent school. Got it.
Derek Wayne Johnson (31:47.062)
The independent school districts, sorry. Basically just the school districts. so Parks and Rec is where he had to really focus on. But he started in the school districts, then Parks and Rec. And at one time he told me, I can't remember how many locations in East Texas Mr. Lamont had, but he had over 800 students total.
between all of the different locations. Now, of course he had black belts teaching all those different locations. He taught five nights a week and then he had other locations. So post COVID it dwindled and unfortunately, you know, he passed and so we're all gonna try to carry the torch. And I feel like that model is pretty amazing, clearly effective.
And, but now I'm also starting to see some ASK people start their own brick and mortar dojos, including independent school districts and parks and rec. So it's, I don't know, it's just kind of cool to see all of that. I myself plan on doing that same model. I would like to open a brick and mortar as a headquarters.
get into the independent school districts, colleges, universities, parks and rec. And that way, again, less overhead. And the brick and mortar one I wanna do, obviously there would be overhead, but I would own it as opposed to rent it. wonderful business model. Speaking of the founder of ASK, Mr. Bill Gray, I hadn't seen him since I was probably in 20 something years.
And I got to see him with Bill Superfoot Wallace a couple of weeks ago. And it was a really nice reunion to be with the founder of my organization. It was just really delightful.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:50.138)
Yeah.
That's got to be a fun time and I'm going to guess that the two of those gentlemen go back a ways. Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (33:58.018)
Best friends. Yeah, they go back 50 plus years.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:01.88)
that's cool. Yeah. And, you know, if you you've spent time with Superfoot, you know, his memory is a steel trap. That man can tell you. Everything, I mean, expect things that make sense, but are ridiculous, like how each point went in a certain match in a tournament in nineteen seventy one. But also.
the first time that he meets people, what they talked about, where the seminar was. mean, he just, he has such a brilliant mind for all this detail. That's part of why I love learning from him.
Derek Wayne Johnson (34:40.488)
Absolutely. Absolutely. I asked him about Bill Gray and how, you know, I was like, when did you guys meet? Just fill me in, you know, like hanging with you guys. just need to know. have questions and they answered everything. They remembered all of it in detail. Like you're saying, it was just in, you know, over ice cream, obviously, because Bill likes his ice cream.
But yeah, so how to get into the independent school districts? Well, I can't give too much away, but our organization has done it all as far as universities, independent school districts, you name it, parks and rec, it can be done. But to my understanding, it is difficult to do.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:29.776)
I would imagine it has to do with strong relationships with people at the school that have seen the longevity and the success of a martial arts program. They understand the synergy that the school has with the martial arts program. And somebody in command, somebody with some authority, is willing to bend the rules.
Derek Wayne Johnson (35:53.761)
Yeah, could be. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:54.81)
That's my guess.
So for the school owners out there, keep building relationships. It's that front office. It's the person that answers the phone or receives you when you walk in that office. They're the one that runs that place. It's not the principal.
Derek Wayne Johnson (36:02.218)
Exactly.
Derek Wayne Johnson (36:11.693)
That's very true.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:13.776)
Because if you call and that person, I mean, I don't want to be sexist, it is generally a woman, whomever answers that phone, if you want them to pass you on, they got to like you. Otherwise, I'm sorry, the principal's not available. Sure, I'll take a message. They pretend they hang up, you're done.
Derek Wayne Johnson (36:34.487)
that's true. Well I should note that Mr. Lamont was also formerly a chemistry teacher so he had that in at the time so who knows who knows how he relations well there you go relationship absolutely
Jeremy Lesniak (36:46.128)
See? Relationship. Business is all about relationship.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:55.295)
You
Jeremy Lesniak (36:59.77)
So you've lost your, you say your primary instructor, the way you spoke about him makes me think he was your primary. Okay.
Derek Wayne Johnson (37:05.515)
Yes, yes. He was my real life Mr. Miyagi is how I always say it. Yeah, he died in January of 2025.
Jeremy Lesniak (37:11.642)
That's it.
Jeremy Lesniak (37:18.672)
Tell us a Miyagi sort of story about him. Let's understand who he is a little bit for it. We move on.
Derek Wayne Johnson (37:22.097)
thank you for asking.
He... Man.
You know, I said he had a lot of students and he did and he had over 100 black belts in his 30 something years of teaching. Big organization. And.
Derek Wayne Johnson (37:50.134)
When he died, his widow, who's now our highest ranked black belt, not because she was married to him, but she earned it, she closed the school down, at least for now, as we mourn. And she said he was just larger than life. And she said, I just don't know if I can do it without it. It's not the same. So let's all take a break.
And we can reconvene, but I just can't do is larger than life. And when she said that, I started thinking about larger than life. And he absolutely was this man would speak to anyone.
had more friends than I can even imagine, helped more people, and if he loved you, he told you he loved you. I can't tell you how many times he and I said I love you to one another on the phone, in person. So that kind of gives you a little bit of a backstory, but I'll give you some specifics. I'm a teenager. I'm broke, single mom.
and we have a karate camp over the weekend. Entry fee, food, gas, tent, you name it. And there was just no way I could go. There just wasn't. I even had a little job and I just didn't have the money or the means. Neither did my mom to help.
Needless to say, without even asking or anything, he just funded my entire trip that weekend. mean, gas, food, tent, waived all the fees. I didn't starve. He just took care of me. And when you multiply that times all the others that we don't know about the things he did, he didn't have to do that.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:44.432)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:52.313)
Right.
Derek Wayne Johnson (39:55.382)
But he didn't just lose money on me. He took care of me. And I don't want to say of me. He took care of a poor, broke, struggling teenage kid that really wanted to be there. He would do things like that. Sometimes you would find, man, if any of my, you know, E-T-A-S-K guys are listening, they're going to tear up at this, but...
because he'll know what I'm talking about. Sometimes you'd find gear in your bag that you didn't pay for because he knew that maybe mom couldn't afford it. Things like that, mean, think about this as a business. They're all wanting to make money because they have to, because it's a business, but like think about all of the money, like doing things like that. He was losing money.
And I just find that to be, I mean, that's just the type of guy he was. And I could go on and on and on on and on, but I'll give you, I'll sum it up with one more recent one, because that's when I was a teenager.
Derek Wayne Johnson (41:11.789)
A few years ago, had a... When COVID happened, I was living in Los Angeles and I was engaged at the time and it didn't work out. A couple months before my wedding, COVID hits. I come back to Texas and I'm married now, by the way, to the love of my life. So it's a happy ending. It totally worked out. Well, different woman. So yeah, it worked out.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:34.064)
So it did work out.
Right, that's what I mean, but it worked out.
Derek Wayne Johnson (41:40.758)
in an even better way. So Mr. Lamont calls me and he says, did you make it back to Texas? Okay. Yes, sir. He said, you know, it's her loss. You dodged a bullet, right? You know all of that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. He goes, great. Now quit crying, wipe your tears, put your gi on and get to class and I'll see you in three hours.
I go, wait, now mind you, I haven't been to class in a while. I lived in California for years. He said, you heard me. And by the way, bring your gear.
Man, I had only been home to Texas for a couple days and I was totally heartbroken. I went to class.
This man, it was as if I had never left. And for the next five years, I just got to train with him every freaking day again, just like before I moved to California. And he just changed my entire life and gave me so much hope and love and instruction, just like the character Mr. Miyagi.
And I don't know if you know this in looking me up or anything, but I'm a little closer to Mr. Miyagi the character than you might think. If you would like me to discuss that.
Jeremy Lesniak (43:12.132)
Before we go there, I want to acknowledge some of the things that you said about your instructor. Sounds like an absolutely awesome guy. And we can take a look at some of those examples that you gave of where he was.
Derek Wayne Johnson (43:16.918)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (43:31.104)
not receiving revenue for things that were happening. And there are a lot of martial arts school owners out there that are like that. But I believe given enough time, that actually is a more a better business model. You're investing in people, people who love you. Because it's not just about how do I make money teaching martial arts, it's
How do I take this wonderful thing that I've been gifted with and share it with a new generation? I mean, generation age-wise, mean, generation in terms of martial arts, educational lineage. And when you are that way, when you are mission-focused rather than financially-focused, and you invest so much of yourself into it,
Jeremy Lesniak (44:29.104)
I think I'm gonna say most most of the schools that persist for you know, 20 plus years. I think they reach a point where You know, you almost don't have to mark it anymore. You should but everybody everybody knows you everybody knows who you are how you are and the whole community recognizes the value and they're saying you know what that you need to go train there you need to do this you need to go get these benefits and
It just, I don't want to say it gets easy, but you, but I've seen this happen with so many schools. You reach a point where just, it just kind of chugs along. And that's what I'm hearing. Like I, I, I don't know this man. Didn't interview him to my knowledge was never even in the same.
but I feel like I do know him. I'm pretty sure, because what you're saying, I've talked to a lot of martial art, and I'm glad, I'm not suggesting that who he was and what he did wasn't significant, because it absolutely was, but I want to acknowledge that there are quite a few out there, and some are even in the audience here, who approach their martial arts school in this way.
Because when you put that set of gear in somebody's bag, you just want to see that student succeed. You don't want a few bucks to be a barrier.
Because it's not about a few bucks. Obviously you've got to keep the school open. Obviously you've got to be there or there won't benefit. But it'll happen. And the last little bit I want to say, there are martial arts schools out there. people have been around for a little bit. No, do some consulting with martial arts schools. This story that you're telling, this is exactly the reason why I tell school owners, you need to charge probably a little bit more than you think you should.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:28.964)
because it gives you the opportunity to help people out. If you're scraping by and you've got three students that could really benefit from X, Y, or Z, now you're dipping into your own pocket. Now you're losing money to help. That's a tough position to be in. But if you make a decent living, as someone who is skilled at a thing should, then you can go into whether you think of it as your pocket or the school's pockets, and you can help people out and you can still be mission focused. And I think that that provides a lot more.
long-term benefit to everyone involved.
Derek Wayne Johnson (47:01.995)
I totally agree. And even towards the end of his life, I even knew that he wasn't charging some families and some, I guess, I don't know what the word is, but families that couldn't afford it, he just stopped charging them. so it just, things like that, it's just, you're right. He was investing in the person. He was doing it right.
Like he was teaching martial arts, not for himself per se, but for others. And just an incredible man, incredible teacher. And obviously he's absolutely missed. And here's the interesting part. When he died, let's see, I am...
I am now the age that he was when I met him.
or you know so he died when I was 41 and then I turned 42 so I think he was 41 when I met him.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:05.391)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (48:15.219)
It's just, it's like, okay, all those years I have, when I start teaching my classes more formally, now that school's closed, there might be some kid one day that there's a you, exactly. So it's definitely, I definitely plan to pay it forward, absolutely. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:30.672)
There's a you out there somewhere.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:39.862)
And I think, you know, again, I... There's as many ways to run a martial arts school successfully as there are people.
But you gotta love it. It's a job. It's a job. If you don't love this job, it's gonna it's gonna ruin you. I've watched too many people love training. They open a school. They hate running a school and then they stop training because it drain the life out of them. And it makes me sad. Makes me truly sad. Now, before we took our our tangent, which is the only format that we do on martial arts radio is tangents. You said that
Derek Wayne Johnson (49:10.443)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:20.48)
you had something in common or maybe even more in common with with Pat Morita or were you comparing to the character Mr. Miyagi?
Derek Wayne Johnson (49:28.231)
sort of both. And by the way, we, just an editing note real quick, hate to put you to editing work. I actually said that and then I was like, that sounded terrible. I was gonna segue. So maybe we could cut that in this. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:29.966)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:45.346)
Alright, I will. Hey, you know what? Let's do this. Let's stay quiet for like a 5 count.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:55.738)
There we go. And then Andrew can find that a little bit easier later as he's scanning through. I was really excited. I thought you had this great segue that was going to be like, hey, you know, and we both fought Pat Johnson or something equally awesome. Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (50:12.877)
I'll give you the story. I'll give you the story. It was just the way I set it up, was like, oof, I need a, that needs to go. But I'll give you the story whenever you're ready. Yeah, so what's interesting, one aspect of my career is, you know, I'm a martial artist and now a new film professor, which is kind of interesting.
route my life has taken, but I'm also a filmmaker. And, you know, The Karate Kid, Mr. Miyagi, all of that, as I was telling you, inspired me to get into martial arts, but it also inspired me to get into movies. And I actually made, I don't know if you know this, but I directed a documentary on the director of The Karate Kid. He directed Karate Kid, Rocky, his name was John Avilson.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:02.127)
No!
Derek Wayne Johnson (51:07.789)
And so I made a documentary called, he went by John G. Alvison, John G. Alvison, King of the Underdogs. And so I got to basically nerd out with all the karate kid, Cobra Kai guys, all the Rocky people, et cetera. And so John Alvison was also a mentor of mine as Mr. Lamont was, but just in a different field in filmmaking. And so I didn't get to meet Pat Morita or
Jeremy Lesniak (51:07.972)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (51:36.779)
because he passed away before I made the documentary. yeah, it's just interesting how that movie or movies and now the series and all of that, it really just helped develop my interest, not only in martial arts, but in movies. yeah, so there's that little tidbit.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:59.62)
I've said this before on the show quite a few times and I love The Karate Kid. But what I've said is The Karate Kid is really, to me, is a very interesting film because the sum is so much greater than its parts. If you break that film down, the writing's okay, the acting's okay, the stunt choreography's okay. There's nothing about it that when I watch it as, no.
Derek Wayne Johnson (52:14.657)
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:27.404)
not a film professor or a filmmaker, but as a casual fan of movies, there's nothing I watch in that and say, you know, this part of this movie is exceptional, but the movie is exceptional.
Derek Wayne Johnson (52:40.673)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:40.706)
It stood up so well. I mean, you watch it now and it's a story that's still relevant. The clothing's a little dated.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:55.664)
Of course I mute my mic and don't sneeze.
But it's, I don't know, it's, you nodded, so you don't hate me. Some people hate me for this take.
Derek Wayne Johnson (53:05.077)
No, I understand. It's my favorite movie, but I understand what you mean. Because even I look at it like the movie is, I could go on and on and on, but we're here to talk martial arts, not movies. However, to me, the martial arts in the movie, and you might agree with this as a martial artist, it's kind of like, well, I see the basics that he's teaching him and I know that it's based on actual traditional martial arts. It's fine.
There are some silly things like in part three where he does Kada as he's fighting in a tournament and things like that. It's silly, but it's a movie. But I always tell people The Cruddy Kid is not a martial arts film to me. It's a love story between a boy and a surrogate dad. And that's what John Allison, the director, was setting out to make. And I think achieved that. And so I think when we're all
all of us martial arts instructors trying to be Mr. Miyagi. What we're trying to be is the essence that he had, that character had in the martial arts. It's just so beautiful, such a beautiful character. Actually, I know you got to interview Sensei Fumio Demura. I interviewed him for the documentary. Unfortunately, his piece didn't make the final cut.
Nothing against sensei. It just you know things had to be cut but a real life Mr.. Miyagi
Jeremy Lesniak (54:37.092)
Yeah, yeah, I understand.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:42.234)
Key.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:46.446)
I'm glad you brought up Demura. Because I was thinking about him. Because I can't think about Karate Kid without thinking of him. Because...
Jeremy Lesniak (54:59.952)
I know if you've seen the real Miyagi, the documentary. cool. Well, it's they're the reason I got to talk to him. They they made that happen because we did an episode on him and I watched the documentary reference that and everything. And they said, you know, you want to talk to him? It was like, yeah. And I had his number in an hour and I was talking to him on the phone. We set it up. was amazing.
Derek Wayne Johnson (55:01.739)
Yeah, yeah, I know the guys that made it.
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (55:28.356)
But to me, he is Miyagi. Not the way the documentary is even titled, the real Miyagi. He is not just the choreography, the stunt work that ended up happening with his team, but the spirit. The amount that Pat Morita pulled from Demura's personality. And then you look at how much that man, not just through that movie, but in other ways,
Changed martial arts in the world. I I don't believe there is a person alive who has changed He's not alive anymore. I can't say it that way. I I don't think there's anyone recently alive who changed martial arts more globally Than Fumio Demura and we have to go back to I believe Bruce Lee to get anybody else
Derek Wayne Johnson (56:18.7)
Yeah?
Derek Wayne Johnson (56:22.635)
Yeah. No, I agree. And he was the man. I got to interview him in his dojo. memorabilia, the pictures of Bruce and just, it was just so, it's just everything you would want it to be. yeah, an amazing, an amazing man. And you're right. I mean, the spirit of Miyagi, was like,
Again, neither of us, I don't think you ever got to meet Pat Morita, nor did I. And of course he was an actor. So he wasn't Miyagi, but Fumio, like you said, was, and like the guys that made the doc, was Miyagi, the spirit of Miyagi. And, you know, it's interesting those, traditional form of karate and, you know, the more modern styles and the way that
some of, I don't want to bad mouth anybody or anything, but some of the way of modern sparring has evolved. It's like, I would have loved to have seen him in a modern sparring match. That would have been terrifying for his opponent. Whether it would be no touch or light contact or full contact. He was just a...
a really good martial artist.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:53.072)
I'm not going to say this man's name, but there's someone that I met through Fumio Demura and we are connected on social media. And so over the last few years, I've gotten to, I've gotten a little bit of kind of behind the scenes, some context stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak (58:14.388)
Demer was every bit who you wanted him to be. Just such a great man.
and just wanted to pass on what he learned and wanted people to train hard and get all the benefits and he wanted martial arts, he wanted karate to keep going. And you know, you can learn a lot about somebody by how the people around them are when they pass and watching the people that were around him. You know, this was not simply the loss of an instructor. And I think this will probably ring true for you.
This was the loss of...
someone who so fundamentally helped them become who they were. It was almost like a foundation, like a pillar, and all of a sudden it's gone.
Derek Wayne Johnson (59:09.663)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:12.078)
And I've lost, not in the martial arts, but I've lost some people who kind of fit that.
Derek Wayne Johnson (59:18.028)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:21.292)
No one's ever fill in those shoes. Just as no one will ever fill your instructor's shoes, no matter who you train with.
Derek Wayne Johnson (59:21.613)
No, it's weird.
Right.
And all we can do is just pass it on. Like you were saying that Sensei Dima did, just pass it on. And I like what you said about it helps make you the person you are. Yeah, that's deep and right on target. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:46.64)
Yeah. And the reason I can speak in this way is because I was blessed to have that sort of martial arts upbringing too. So I get it. Any other martial arts related or even adjacent films that you've worked on that the audience might be interested in?
Derek Wayne Johnson (59:54.25)
Mm-hmm.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:00:04.397)
I'm not sure about as far as martial arts. Everyone's like, when are going to do a martial arts film? Because you would think that's like, and I do want to do one one day, be it a documentary or a feature film where it's just mainly martial arts based. I do have ideas. I did do some documentaries kind of still in that realm of more so in the rocky world. I've done a few projects with Stallone.
in the Rocky world. One of them is called 40 Years of Rocky, the Birth of a Classic that he narrates. Stuff like that. As far as martial arts, I would like to do something. But I don't know, I set out to be a filmmaker and documentaries kind of fell into that. And so that's kind more what I'm known for than my
feature films, I do try to incorporate a little bit of martial arts in my films in some way. But no, yeah, I've been kind of blessed to be able to make these films. And it introduces you to a lot of professional fighters or, you know,
It gives something to talk about. It's a nice conversation.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:01:37.348)
You know the documentary that I really want to exist in? We even started it as a project and I very quickly said this is, we can't allocate the resources on this, we're not there. It's something on Joe Lewis. And my hope is that someone will do that and talk to Superfoot. Because from my understanding, because we've had quite a few people on the show who
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:01:49.675)
Yeah. Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:01:57.441)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:05.706)
knew Joe Louis personally. fact, one of my best friends, Dennis, it is his birthday today. He's one of a small group that has black belts from both Superfoot and Joe.
You get some stories about some of these people like Joe Louis that 99 % of the world saw them one way, but the few people that they let behind the curtain got to see a whole other side. There's a lot to that, man.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:02:32.781)
Right.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:02:36.555)
Well, and I'm a big Joe Lewis fan. actually, I don't want to say my ideas because I don't want to give them away, obviously. But I do have ideas for documentaries, at least because I do both docs and features in that realm. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but one of my ideas would involve
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:43.426)
No, don't. Don't.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:52.719)
Mm.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:03:02.355)
a bit on Joe Louis. That's all I'll say. Nothing official yet.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:03:06.049)
If you do it, any of my connections can be helpful, just say the word. I'll put you in touch with some people.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:03:13.507)
I would love to.
Yeah, absolutely. huge Joe Louis fan. Just, you know, superfoot, Joe Louis, Benny Urquidez, Don Wilson, all the old school goats, pretty much. I'm just a sucker for, thank goodness for YouTube. Yeah, yeah. You know, met Benny Urquidez one time by, I didn't know I was going to meet him.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:03:30.255)
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm all good people.
All really good people.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:03:46.03)
You know, usually when you meet someone famous, you know you're going to meet them and whatnot. I love telling this story. I was interviewing Judo Jean LaBelle for a documentary and... Oh yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:03:59.322)
So jealous. There are only a few names you could drop that would make me jealous. That's one of them.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:04:03.917)
I could drop several, but I'm glad that you appreciate Judo, Gene LaBelle. I'm interviewing him in his office. And we're talking when we're done, like Mr. LaBelle loved to talk. And I don't mean that in a bad way. mean, you're not going to go interview him for an hour. You're going to interview him for an hour and stay for another four hours. And so when we were done with the interview,
We're just talking and blah, And he goes, there's Benny. And I turn and I look and Benny the Jed or Kiedez walks in and Judo Jean Labelle introduces me to Sensei or Kiedez. I'm standing in between both of them and my brain is just, I did not know.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:04:50.936)
the most dangerous place anyone's ever stood in history is between the two of those men.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:04:55.405)
You were so correct. You took the words right out of my mouth. I felt the most vulnerable I've ever felt in my life. And I wasn't expecting, I didn't know he was coming. And the nicest, nicest guy ever, huge fan of him as well. And that's just one of those moments, like you can't make that up. I'm just standing in between both of these guys. It was just, it was awesome. Just a cool experience.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:07.28)
That's so cool. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:25.486)
Are the especially that movie about the director there, pardon me, the name dropped out of my brain. Can people find it like say that again?
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:05:35.213)
John G. Abelson. His name was John, the title is John G. Abelson, King of the Underdogs.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:44.378)
How do I watch that?
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:05:46.617)
it's out there streaming. All my films are out there. Prime. Nothing's on Netflix. I've never done Netflix, but Prime, you name it, it's there.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:49.392)
Okay. Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:00.464)
Do we, I don't know that we have links. Do you have a website set up with all your films? Okay.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:06:06.157)
I used to. I could, yeah, could send you links and stuff. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:11.28)
Then at least get us a list. Let's flesh out the show notes with that, because I think people would be interested. You bring a certain quality to your conversation, and I'm going to guess that you bring that similar quality to the way you tell a story in film, whether documentary or whether feature. And when I find someone and I like the way they tell their story, whether that's a certain writing style or
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:06:16.331)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:40.196)
vocal style or something, I want to see all the stuff that they got. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that wants that list.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:06:44.711)
I appreciate that. Yeah, no, I'll definitely give you the list. And I used to have a website with it all there and then life happens, but no, they're all out there. We did. I've got like, I've got King of the Underdogs, 40 years of Rocky, Stallone, Frank that is, about Frank Stallone, Sylvester's brother. That's streaming on Prime right now.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:59.248)
Okay.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:07:13.837)
I edited the making of Rocky versus Drago for Sly. It's a years ago he did the Rocky IV director's cut. Well, I edited the documentary of him making the director's cut. So just a bunch of fun stuff. I kind of got sucked up in the Rocky Stallone world, but I'm happy and it's awesome. He's awesome.
You know, it's it's funny sometimes I would just annoy him and send him training videos and One time I was I had a lake house and I was cutting Tree stumps or whatever branches up with my chainsaw and I Was tossing these logs to get them onto the fire pit so to annoy sly I just Had someone video me and I was tossing them
I was doing what Rocky was doing in Rocky 4 when he was tossing the logs but in Siberia and so I was like look familiar and he's like Something like, know, you and I both know that's definitely difficult to do. I was like, yeah And it's just stuff like that you geek out on you're like, hey look at me sly I'm throwing logs like you did just stupid stuff
Jeremy Lesniak (01:08:37.424)
He's so interesting. I haven't watched the second season yet, but Tulsa King. And you look at him as an actor now and you go back to the beginning of his career and you're like, how did this person got up? Not that he was ever up. Some people would say he was a bad actor. They never thought he was a bad actor, but you watch him in Tulsa King. This man is putting on a masterclass. He's become an incredible actor.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:08:43.351)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:09:00.671)
Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, definitely got pigeonholed through the years with Rambo and things like that. But no, he's a great actor, a great talent. Yeah, he's just a cool guy. All of those guys are all the all the.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:09:18.256)
If he's writing back to you sending him videos like that, he's got to be a good guy. He's got a sense of humor, he has some self-awareness that some of what he's done has been so inspirational and iconic.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:09:26.715)
yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:09:31.277)
Yeah, I mean, just so many stories I could tell, but back to martial arts. I'm just kidding for the audience out there. Yeah, it's weird because the martial arts, it all for me, movies and martial arts are kind of they were kind of one thing growing up. And I learned to kind of separate them, if that makes sense.
I didn't want to get pigeonholed and just do karate movies or documentaries, but now I want to.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:10:08.976)
It sense. I've had the chance to talk to a good number of folks who are martial artists involved in film. And usually you can describe them as an actor who does martial arts or a martial artist who acts. You know, we've only had a couple of people on the show that really blur the line where you have to kind of make a choice. It's usually pretty obvious. And I've even posed it to the guests in that way. And they're like, absolutely. I am a this or the or the other.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:10:16.428)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:10:28.876)
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:10:38.412)
Is there anyone, whichever direction of that coin you want to take it, that you would really like to work with?
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:10:46.494)
my goodness. but yeah, absolutely. as far as like, yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:10:51.6)
Let me phrase it differently because I bet it's a long list if if somebody watching has a magic wand and they can wish one person into you being able to work with them who is that?
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:11:02.805)
And you mean specifically in the martial arts movies world.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:11:06.882)
Yeah, whether that's, you know, someone who's known for acting or stunt work or even choreography.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:11:13.117)
man, that's a good one. That's a good question. I'm glad you get to edit this because I get to think about it for 10 minutes. No, I'm kidding.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:11:19.866)
We'll probably leave this part in because the deliberation, I think, is an important part of the answer. When someone's not sure how to answer a question, it tells me that I've asked a good question because either it's a difficult decision or you've never thought about the material in that way. And I think either one is valuable for us getting to know you.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:11:24.79)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:11:38.42)
R.I.P.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:11:43.85)
Yeah. Well, I'll say this. I'll answer it in a roundabout way. So exactly. I almost had for my latest film, I almost had Dolph Lundgren cast. Actually, he was going to do it. And I say Dolph Lundgren because we were kind of going that route you're talking about. We wanted a martial arts actor and of course an icon. And so we almost had him.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:11:50.032)
spoken like a martial arts instructor.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:12:12.845)
as a villain. So that was an almost, could be again. Like if you ask me like who's an actor you want to work with, you know, I'm going to say like, oh Billy Bob Thornton, right? Somebody like really, really crazily talented as an actor. If you say who's a martial artist actor you want to work with, you know, then there's like, oh, well then there's Dolph Lundgren and Michael J. White, that sort of thing. If you say who's a martial artist you want to work with,
It's like, well, obviously Bill Wallace and people like that. So there's a wide variety and you're right. It could be long answers. So yeah, I don't know. It's more of like, I have ideas. Some have been executed, some will be executed. The lists are just too long. I categorize everything. I have a top five and a top three and I just...
Jeremy Lesniak (01:13:09.816)
That's spoken like anyone involved in film. Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:13:12.819)
Exactly. There's just too many to choose from. yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:13:21.016)
What martial arts movie or potentially series of deserves another sequel and you want to direct it?
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:13:34.21)
Good one.
Huh.
Okay, how cool would it be to see a modern The Last Dragon sequel? Not a reboot, but a sequel. Now, I know a lot of the cast, a lot of the cast are gone, but Tiamat is still around.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:13:53.616)
How do we bridge to that?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:14:01.222)
He's still doing it and there's, he's talked about a sequel, he's flirted with it. And I'm honestly surprised it hasn't happened because nostalgia has been so big. And I can't imagine the IP rights on that are super expensive.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:14:11.692)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:14:16.915)
Right, yeah, I would love to do that. I love that movie because everything else has been done. Yeah, can't do Karate Kid because it's done and done and done and done. You know, The Last Dragon, 100%. I would love to do that.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:14:21.296)
There was so much in the first one to pull from.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:14:33.722)
That's a, you know, I didn't, I would have assumed you would have gone deeper on the action side, you know, something Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Tony Jaws, somewhere in that world.
but The Last Dragon would be great.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:14:56.237)
It's just so fun. I should.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:14:57.956)
You should go make that happen. I hope you do. Somebody out there has to have some way of helping Derek make that happen. do it. Do it. I don't know. Maybe Tymock's watching. He's been on the show. Good guy. Super good guy.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:15:03.338)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:15:09.559)
That would be amazing.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:15:15.381)
Nice.
Yeah, haven't met him, but I hear great things. Just a nice guy.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:15:22.22)
Yeah, yeah, just, you know, again, you don't have a lot of actors that I think truly understand.
the place that their role in an iconic film has for people. I mean, we just dropped our episode with Simon Rhee from Best of the Best and plenty of other things, but that's what people know him from. You know, that just came out in the last few weeks. And he talked about that a little bit, this idea that, you know, he seemed surprised because there's a martial artist who became an actor. I'm just doing martial arts. I'm just a guy, you know, not that that was
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:15:56.461)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:15:59.758)
how he worded it, but that was my impression. He saw himself in a very humble way. And yet, I mean, still, there's some playful controversy on this show about that film. But the reality is it is held up as one of our audience's favorite martial arts films of all time.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:16:26.712)
Yeah. I was friends with Sally Kirkland, played, I forgot her name in the movie. And so I remember one time, you know, when you live in LA, you just, you just know tons of people. And so I knew Sally, sweet, sweet lady. And she was like, can you send me a copy of, of that on DVD? I don't even have it. So I think I sent her a copy of best of the best. No.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:16:51.812)
Did you sign it? Because I said, because who does that,
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:16:59.795)
Right, right. I remember I met Eric Roberts once and I was like, hey, friends with Sally Kirkland, she said to tell you hello. And I was like, it was kind of loud in there. We were at a film festival or something. I was like, sorry, Mr. Roberts, did you hear me? He goes, I heard you. You tell her I said hi. And I was like, OK, there's my best of the best moment linking Sally Kirkland and Eric Roberts.
briefly.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:17:29.744)
There's it, you know, it's almost a six degrees of Kevin Bacon, six degrees of best of the best. We can play the game that way.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:17:37.109)
Yeah, yeah. It's a fun film. It, you know, a lot of cheese, but it's fun. If you're a martial artist, you love it. Who didn't grow up watching best of the best? You know, it's just fun. Really?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:17:51.472)
I hadn't seen it until a few years ago. And that's one of the challenges. There are certain films that if you cannot place yourself in the mindset of that time period and be contemporary about it, it can be really challenging. That was my issue with The Princess Bride. I watched it when I was in my mid-20s and I watched it again 10 years later. I didn't like it the first time. I watched it again 10 years later and worked really hard to pretend I was 12 years old. And it made all the difference.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:18:07.454)
Yeah.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:18:16.716)
Yeah.
That's true. Another good movie that, you know, I think you're right. I don't think I appreciated that one until much later. It's interesting because movies, again, of a certain generation, pre-internet, pre-cell phone, all that, all we had were the movies, magazines, books, and maybe...
ESPN was showing martial arts. I mean, that's all we had. And so a certain generation, we, we, you know, we know it's make believe and we know that so-and-so might not be a professional fighter because now we're in the age of like legit, you know, I'm not talking about Benioquitos and people like that legit, like the greatest, but some are just.
martial artists that act or actors that do martial arts. I'm talking about the real prize fighters. It is just a totally different dynamic now. So a lot of kids don't look up to say Jean-Claude Van Damme like we did. They look up to, you know, whomever the UFC champion. So things have changed and there's nothing wrong with either. It's just, I feel like,
I'm not sure how old you are, but my generation, we saw that. 46? Okay, so our generation, we saw both sides of that shift. And both sides are cool, I think. mean, you know, because we grew up going, who would win in a fight? Jean-Claude Van Damme or Steven Seagal? And it's like, well, yeah, that would never happen though, right?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:19:48.592)
I've got, I'm 46, I've got just a couple years on you.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:20:13.793)
But these days you can go who's going to win in a fight between, you know, so and so UFC guy and so and so UFC guy.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:20:20.368)
And there's a decent chance you'll get some information on that, right? Whether it's they fight directly or they fought some people in common and you can kind of compare. I mean, in some ways that's fun, but in some ways it takes the fun out of it. The nerdy debates to go back. And kind of what I love about the way you talked about this transition is, and this almost brings us full circle in a sense, is that
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:20:37.067)
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:20:49.572)
who was there at that transition point, Bill Superfoot Wallace, doing commentary at UFC One. And I've had some conversations with him about the UFC and things that I'm not gonna share here, but maybe once we're done recording.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:20:55.297)
Yes. Yes.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:21:05.645)
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:21:09.986)
This has been great. I know if we don't intentionally end this, it will not end. I can tell that you and I both could go quite long on this. And I have another one that I have to go prep for. So I thank you for your time. This has been great. When you send over that list, we'll get into the show notes. And if there's anything else that you want to plug in there, social media, do you do social media?
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:21:34.655)
Yeah, I do. I'm on.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:21:38.136)
Reluctantly, it sounds like. Minimally. OK.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:21:39.298)
Facebook, Instagram, know, DWJohnson16 is my handle. I used to be really into it, but I just kind of calmed down. But I love when people, if I do a podcast or something and they reach out to me, please do. You know, it'd be great. I will get back to you.
And yeah, I'll send you the list and I just appreciate you inviting me on and letting me talk about stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:22:08.25)
Yeah, this has been a fun conversation. Maybe we need to find a way to have you on again and have more of a film-centric conversation.
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:22:17.291)
Would love to, would love to. And just thank you. Thank you for letting me talk martial arts and movies.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:22:19.088)
We can talk about putting that together.
Yeah, thanks for being here and I'm gonna have you close. You know, I don't I don't close Actually before I do I haven't done a single intro or outro all day whoops Whistlekick.com whistlekick martial arts radio comm Thank you for your support. And so I'll throw back to you to close this up. What we've talked a lot of Talked about a lot of different things today. We've been all over the map in a sense, but What do you want the audience to?
think about as this episode fades into something else that they're going to watch or listen
Derek Wayne Johnson (01:23:01.197)
Well, think that if you're listening to this, you're probably a martial artist or have an interest in martial arts. Let's just be clear on that. And I would want you to think about it's, you know, we're in this new rebirth of the martial arts and it's it's almost like a martial arts Renaissance. It's at your fingertips anywhere and everywhere. But there is nothing.
nothing wrong with studying YouTube and listening to other fighters give pointers and things like that, but you have to go to the dojo or the mat or the ring and apply it. And I feel like a lot of times the theory is almost outweighing
the application because it's at everyone's fingertips on YouTube. Well, I watched so-and-so show me how to do that, so now I know how to do it. And I would want to remind martial artists that blood, sweat, and tears is the only, only proven way to really achieve success, but also keep learning and keep watching those videos, but just go and physically apply it. And I thank you for having me on.