Episode 1127 - The Pros & Cons of Splitting Martial Arts Classes
In this episode, Andrew leads a roundtable discussion with Ken Knight, Dennis Campo and Nick Acri on the pros and cons of spitting up martial arts classes into different disciplines.
The Pros and Cons of Splitting Martial Arts Classes - Episode 1127
SUMMARY
In this episode, we have a roundtable discussion about the pros and cons of splitting martial arts classes. Andrew is joined by Ken Knight, Dennis Campo and Nick Acri and they explore various teaching methods, the importance of student engagement, and the challenges of maintaining a diverse curriculum. Each participant shares their experiences and insights on how to effectively structure classes to cater to different student needs and preferences. In this conversation, the speakers discuss the complexities of teaching martial arts, particularly the balance between self-defense training and traditional martial arts. They explore the importance of consistent training, the need for community in martial arts, and the challenges instructors face in meeting student needs. The discussion emphasizes the significance of understanding what students truly need versus what they think they want, and the ultimate goal of empowering students through martial arts.
TAKEAWAYS
Splitting classes can keep students engaged and interested.
Different martial arts modalities can attract a wider audience.
Maintaining a diverse curriculum can be challenging for instructors.
Dedicated time for specific skills can enhance student progress.
Recognizing one's limitations as an instructor is crucial.
Student preferences can dictate class structure and offerings.
The popularity of certain martial arts can influence class attendance.
Balancing multiple disciplines requires careful planning and execution.
Engaging students in various ways can lead to better retention.
Consistent practice is essential for effective self-defense skills.
Instructors must balance class structures to meet diverse student needs.
Different martial arts styles share more similarities than differences.
The importance of continuous training for skill retention and development.
Instructors should focus on what students need rather than just what they want.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:26 The Pros and Cons of Splitting Martial Arts Classes
08:23 Experiences with Class Structures and Student Engagement
14:14 The Need for Self-Defense Training
17:03 Balancing Class Structures and Student Needs
19:27 Creating a Community Through Martial Arts
23:02 The Importance of Consistent Training
26:30 Understanding the True Purpose of Martial Arts
30:17 Final Thoughts on Class Structures and Student Empowerment
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Andrew Adams (03:36.124)
Welcome you're listening or perhaps you're watching on YouTube another episode of Whistlekick martial arts radio. And today we've got a, an interesting fun roundtable discussion on the pros and cons of splitting martial arts classes. What exactly does that mean? Well, you're going to have to wait and find out in case you're new to whistle kick. Welcome. I want to make sure that you know about all of the stuff that we do at whistle kick. Obviously we have this podcast.
where you can find every episode at whistlekickmarstialartsradio.com. We are now over 1100 episodes when going for over 10 years and all of that stuff you can find at whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com. You can also sign up for our newsletter so you can get notified of every episode when it comes out so you don't miss anyone.
And you can also go to whistlekick.com if you want to find out about the other things that we do. Maybe you want to head to an event that we host around the country. Maybe you want to purchase some sparring gear, some of the best sparring gear you can find. Maybe you want to purchase some apparel, training programs, books, all of that stuff you can find at whistlekick.com. And we'd encourage you to go check that stuff out there. All right. So without further ado, we are joined today.
by Mr. Dennis Campo. Dennis, how are you today?
Dennis Campo (04:54.721)
I'm doing well, my friend. I hope you are doing likewise.
Andrew Adams (04:57.636)
Absolutely as many would say, okay by many I mean me. Today's a great day because I woke up handsome.
Dennis Campo (05:04.864)
There you go.
Andrew Adams (05:05.714)
So also joined today on our call, Nick Acree. Nick, how are you?
Nick (05:09.598)
Very good.
Andrew Adams (05:11.536)
Excellent. And lastly, the kind of the impetus of this episode, which we'll talk about in just a second, former guest of the show, Mr. Ken Knight. Ken, how are you today?
Ken Knight (05:24.013)
I'm really glad to be here with you guys.
Andrew Adams (05:26.35)
Excellent. Excellent. I'm super excited to have you all on as I I mentioned a second ago Can you're the impetus for this event for this? I'm just gonna call it event. This is event. It's a momentous event. We've got you know three Follocally challenged individuals in on one side of the head less so on the other side We've got Nick with who says he's got enough hair for all of us If you're only listening to this you're just gonna have to go to YouTube and watch
Nick (05:44.457)
You
Ken Knight (05:51.453)
That's right.
Nick (05:54.151)
you
Andrew Adams (05:56.494)
but as I'm, know, as I mentioned, I heard you talk on another podcast, the conversations on karate podcast, great friends, Greg and Sue, they had you on their show and you talk, you brought something up and it really got my gears turning. and it made me say, I want to have Ken on, I want to talk about this topic. And the topic is splitting martial arts classes. So, you know,
And actually, Ken, I don't want to go to you first because that's like people expect that. So we're going to go to Dennis. You have many, many years, I'd say at this point, decades and decades of teaching experience. What's your experience been like in terms of splitting up your martial arts classes?
Dennis Campo (06:47.101)
Yes, over four decades, but you know, don't age me. So I ran my school for over 20 years in New York. And I started as kind of a traditional program and it morphed over the years into a conglomeration. Is that the right word? We pulled together a lot of different systems, the superfund system, the Joe Lewis system, my traditional karate and taekwondo background, judo, jiu-jitsu. We kind of taught everything.
in one program. When I first opened my school, we had different programs. I had a judo class, had a karate class, boxing class. I found that folks were interested in all of it. That's why, why not just offer everything all throughout the week? So for my clientele, when I had the school, and just for the sheer variety and keeping folks engaged and interested, we did everything in every class. In terms of the
The pro of keeping it together, just the sheer variety, kept people engaged. You know, we're in the internet age where folks have the attention span of a squirrel. So that's certainly very helpful. But on the flip side, if we're looking at specific types of tournaments or competitions, boxing, smoker, judo tournament, you got to kind of focus on a specific skill set. So I don't want to...
I could spend the whole episode talking through my ideas there, but let me kick it over to Nick and get his thoughts on it. So think Nick and I, we've been teaching a long time, but we, think our paths have been a little bit different, which is really cool.
Nick (08:24.429)
I've been in like a traditional framework, right? So like, know, karate class is karate class and whatever the, you know, the curriculum says needs to be taught that gets worked in. And, you know, the schedules for those tend to be like rotating for whatever or, you know, however to like adhere to the curriculum. lately what I've been thinking about because there are many aspects to the martial arts and I
I constantly think of, how can I get more people involved? like, maybe if I split it into, I want to call it the modalities, the different modalities that martial arts offers. like, you know, somebody might not care about belts, but they think it's a really cool way to strain, train and stretch, right? Somebody might like the stress aspect or the stress relieving aspect of just hitting pads, but they could care less about form number two. You know what I mean? So like, what if,
You know, like what I'm toying with now is kind of splitting in my traditional program into those modalities and kind of listing them more as such so that like maybe somebody that didn't think they wanted to do martial arts. You know, maybe dips their toes in one of those types of classes and then starts to or then eventually maybe they never do. Maybe they just like hit things class because you know, hit things classes Monday and Wednesday on you know at five o'clock after work. They go hit it.
And then they come and they go to home and they're happy. You know what mean? That's beneficial too. So I look at splitting the classes as the way of trying to include more people in the system that I already teach and not so much as way to, I'm not inventing things. I'm just using what I already have. And that's what I'm trying to explore mentally right now.
Andrew Adams (09:55.006)
Mm.
Dennis Campo (09:55.313)
Absolutely.
Andrew Adams (10:07.996)
Yeah. And, and Ken, I'm going to throw it to you next, but I'll give my thoughts on what I've done and what I've noticed. So in most of the schools that I've been involved in, they're very small in terms of student body. And in our, know, for the schools I've been in, it's traditional karate, but we are teaching some jujitsu, some, Japanese jujitsu. We're definitely learning some judo throws and some, you know, Aikido type techniques.
Uh, what some kids are Aikido techniques and then weapons as well. And so we have all of these different things that we're working on and our class is only, you know, either an hour and an hour and half, depending on the school. And there's so much to work on. And the instructor would definitely struggle a little bit with trying to do a little bit of everything, but then you don't work on anything for any super lengthy period of time. And so.
The thought was always and we he ultimately ended up splitting weapons at least weapons was a separate class But in the karate class, we still learned all of these different things and it was a little difficult and He asked my opinion on one point about you know, should we open up a separate class for? Jiu-jitsu judo type aikido stuff and then keep the striking stuff over here And what we determined was we just really didn't have the class size to do that
Ken Knight (11:28.817)
Thank you.
Nick (11:30.084)
you
Andrew Adams (11:34.322)
But there's a lot of good and bad for that. you know, I don't know whether we did the right decision, right call, but for us, it was what worked. Now, Ken, I know that you have been going through this exact thing and have put a lot of thought into it. So I definitely want to make sure we head on over to you and get your thoughts here.
Ken Knight (11:53.511)
Sure. So I started with traditional karate and with that came jujitsu and kabuto. The Japanese jujitsu and kabuto is all one thing. And you wouldn't know any different because that's how it was taught. And my instructor would say that the weapons don't get separated from the karate, that they have to go together. And I'm reading an interesting book right now that's a historic history and they talk about
Dennis Campo (12:04.511)
Thank
Ken Knight (12:21.645)
that Kabuto was never its own art is one of the things that was said. It like it was always a part of and never separate. But we did separate it. I also trained Escrima and those were my core two that I did. And then my instructor started training with another Okinawa Kempo instructor who was doing Gracie Jujitsu. And so at some point we...
Dennis Campo (12:28.36)
Thank
Dennis Campo (12:46.43)
Thank you.
Ken Knight (12:47.471)
started doing jujitsu through, you he came in, did a seminar, did half kabuto, half jujitsu. We started having jujitsu as a bolted on thing, realizing that things do go to the ground. We train a lot to put people on the ground. It's very easy to put you on the ground too, if something goes wrong. Plus you can just trip, you can start on the ground. There's lots of things that could make that necessary. So he decided, he's like, hey, we need to not be ignoring this.
For us, the Brazilian jiu-jitsu and the ground grappling started as an additional component, an expansion of the karate. And then over time, I noticed that we were getting more and more people that they showed up because of the jiu-jitsu. Because we gave it, first we, like you said, it was whatever you're working on. Right now we're working on this, right now we're working on that. And we decided that in order for anybody to progress,
Progressively then you had to have a dedicated time for it So we set us set aside a specific time, but then we'd get people showing up Just those nights just for jujitsu and of course jujitsu has become very very popular So you get people that don't know any better. They think that jujitsu is really the only one you should do That's pretty a pretty popular opinion right now, and I can't say I completely disagree I have my my feelings but
Dennis Campo (13:58.109)
Hmm.
Ken Knight (14:15.717)
We did that for a long time, but I mean, remember that this was something that got added on to our karate. And so for me, I was a white belt in Jiu-Jitsu, helping guide through the stuff that we knew how to do and continued to progress. Eventually got my blue belt and continued like changed affiliations. We started working with Roy Dean and Rick Ellis and got started deepening those skill sets quite a bit, which was really great.
and we got more and more people coming to it. But what I, I noticed a few things and probably the biggest one was.
The taxing nature it was on me to maintain, was teaching all three of those classes. I ended up at some point taking over the karate school. I ended up taking over the Askrima and they eventually came to the same building. I did keep them separate, even though as much as you can as a human individual who trains, it starts your way is your way whether you are using this terminology or that terminology, how you move and what you do is what you do.
and it's what will happen to your students and it's what should happen. But curriculum-wise, tried to keep them separate and ultimately that's a very taxing thing to do, especially taking on a new one. So I'd spend all of my free time trying to make sure that I was continuing to push myself forward in Jiu Jitsu so that I had something to offer. And ultimately came to the decision that it was, you know, maybe
Andrew Adams (15:47.844)
something to offer.
Ken Knight (15:56.501)
not appropriate for the students who really want, they started to want to go to competitions or start and want to do, you know, they're, really getting invested. And I felt like it was taking away from them to have them stay training this with me when there are more capable people, people who've trained longer, they're, they're more accredited. They spend more time on it. You know, we'd spend a couple hours a night, twice a week.
have some open mat, but then there's guys that are training three, four, four nights a week doing only that. That's the only thing they focus on. And I was like, if you really want to be good at this, you probably need to be working with somebody who's going to be able to take you there.
Andrew Adams (16:39.698)
Hmm. Interesting. you know, that's, I would say slightly, slight deviation here, but I would say that's a sign of a good instructor, right? Somebody who recognizes their own skillset and we could probably sit down here and do another full hour long episode just on that topic. But, but I get what you're saying. you started to get students that just want to do that thing. And you know, I'm curious, Nick.
Dennis Campo (16:55.214)
.
Andrew Adams (17:07.942)
You mentioned that you have started separating all your classes. is that for you, is that a good thing or a bad thing that you have people that only come to one type of class and that's it. And for you, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Nick (17:19.369)
So.
So I'll pause for now. It's like I haven't done it yet. Like I'm this is this is the infancy like thought stage for me as because I'm that's why I'm very appreciative of the timing of this one because it's it might help me make some decisions. So I'll give like one of the examples of and you guys have probably had the same type of thing when people call up your school. Like.
Andrew Adams (17:26.12)
Okay.
Andrew Adams (17:33.15)
Perfect.
Nick (17:44.1)
One of the things they ask for is self-defense. Like, do you teach self-defense classes? They don't ask for karate classes or jiu-jitsu or anything. They ask for self-defense. And it could be something happened to them. It could be that's just what they know to ask. There's a lot of reasons, I'm sure, that have been discussed. But I don't have a self-defense class, you know what I mean? Because my thoughts on that type of stuff is
It's like anything we do, it needs to be constantly practiced. So I'm not a big proponent of the this many hours in one day, you get a certificate for kicking a guy in the groin a couple of times and shouting at him. You know, I'm staying in power, they do the great things, but you know, it's, it's my, you know, brain reality that goes, you're not going to remember that thing you did that one time to get that certificate two years ago when something happens. So for me, if somebody is interested in that, they're going to join something that's a consistent program to constantly build those habits and skills and.
Dennis Campo (18:18.96)
Mm-hmm.
Dennis Campo (18:32.509)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (18:39.364)
Which, you know, pushes me, should I just do a weekly at least self-defense class for those people that feel they have that need, but still keep it along the lines of the martial art that I teach? Like this is how you can pull. And then, you know, maybe everyone wants to drop a hint that goes, hey, this is how this is ingrained in me. You're coming to class twice a week, but I practice this form every single day. And it's these same movements, at least the repetitive movement is there. So then you're coming and building those skills, right? So like that's kind of where I'm at. But do I worry that
I'm not serving them. Yes, because that's not my, that's why I'm so resistant to something like self-defense. Like that's not my wheelhouse. Like I don't live in a world, like I haven't been military. the closest I am to a police officer is, I grew up with one, you know, and I've heard some stories, you know, but I've never been in those types of situations that would encourage me to, theorize on them to the extent that they're more realistic where I would feel like I was serving somebody better. So I would always.
Hey, this person does this. I know this person that does these things. I'm surface level, you So like where you are like you were worried about your jujitsu students maybe not going to their next level. I would, you know the same kind of thing would be there, but I would also be thinking at least somebody is involved in doing something and I think that's the standpoint I am with separating the classes is. Dennis, you mentioned like squirrel brains and attention spans.
it takes a large attention span to consume martial arts to like the extent that we have done. And then even to like, you know, what a lot of us would say to do it properly. You know what mean? So but in order for anybody is what I would say nerding out on anything, they need a taste to find out if it's something they like to do. So I think what I'm trying to explore with the scheduling is like, how do I split up the tastes of what I do?
Dennis Campo (20:12.711)
Yes.
Nick (20:33.988)
to encourage people to try it. And even if it becomes one modality of it. So like, think my framework, I'm like, what I'm thinking is like, maybe I have like ranking people and people that don't And, you know, no harm, no foul on either end, but like, and it's like, I think one question I tend to ask is like, how good do you want to be at something? So when I think the other thing that helps me start the wheels turning is I didn't think about the,
Andrew Adams (20:46.398)
Interesting.
Dennis Campo (20:47.665)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (20:56.37)
Yeah.
Nick (21:03.32)
the mental and physical potential load on splitting all that up and having to keep track of all of those different things. Right? So like self-defense needs a certain class plan and curriculum hitting things class will be another something thing. And then you still have to maintain the curriculum for those that would want to pursue rank in some way. And I think that's, that's my piece that I'm looking for the most. So that's that what you said, it does bring a lot to light on that for those, for, for that type of question, right?
Andrew Adams (21:09.982)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (21:22.643)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (21:32.678)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nick (21:33.379)
So like, think that's why I'm mulling things around so much. It's like, there's a lot to think about to do that because I also don't want to become a martial arts gym. Like, I don't want to be a gym. Like, I don't want to be like to show up and like poke around like, we're, you know, I'm offering a service. I'm offering my skillset. But how do I perpetuate that and continue with like where it's viable?
Dennis Campo (21:38.653)
Sure.
Ken Knight (21:39.195)
Thank
Andrew Adams (21:53.98)
Yeah. Yeah. Ken, now you, you had something there you wanted to chat about.
Ken Knight (21:57.357)
Yeah, well I was going to add, so for the record, here's how it went. And it's funny that you just say the gym, because I didn't want that either. had, so our gym, we're in Casper, Wyoming, we call it Casper Dojo. I just wanted to call it the dojo, you know, because it's the place of the way. And the whole concept was to create a place full of instructors that you can come learn whatever you want. We had a kickboxing instructor, we've got a Tai Chi instructor, we've got...
Nick (22:15.234)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Knight (22:26.971)
you know, different people and the idea was to create a place in the community where people could benefit in their lives from the martial arts in some fashion. What it's funny that you mentioned the gym though, because what I did determine is that when I started introducing jujitsu and having a kickboxing instructor is those are very different practitioners. They treat the place different, they treat the people different, they treat the training different. And I started to have a lot of really strong conflicts with that.
Nick (22:35.426)
Yes.
Ken Knight (22:57.777)
You know, because it was breaking some of my own principles and things that I was instilling in people did not have to be held up anywhere else. you'd have people coming in tripping over bags because the kickboxers would just drop their bags and their shoes right inside the door. And I mean, a huge lobby and a place to put all your stuff and a locker room. And people were still tripping over stuff because they just didn't care. And I really struggled with that because these are not the kind of people that I want. This is not what I'm trying to do for this community. And these are not the kind of people that I want to...
Dennis Campo (23:10.429)
You
Nick (23:10.904)
Hmm.
Ken Knight (23:27.357)
enable to go that way. So I struggle with that gym thing too. So I hear you and could talk at that at length, but here's how went with the jujitsu. I said, you you guys are doing really well. I mean, we got, we got multiple blue belts promoted. got a purple belt promoted. I mean, we were able to do more. I mean, even as a blue belt is able to get people pushed to a higher level, but I was like, you guys aren't going to hit. If nothing else, look at your pool, blue belt and lower.
You don't have people challenging you. You don't have purple belts, brown belts, black belts that are pushing your skill set and you need that. And, but what actually happened and was part of the conversation, that Andrew mentioned started this talk was I think maybe, maybe one of them out of the half a dozen, 10 or so maybe students by the end of it,
are still training. So I stopped doing it and said, I took them over. I made a time. said, Hey, we're all going to go over. And we took them over to the beginner class. We took them over to the advanced class. Nobody showed up. But, you know, as people came in, I'm like, you got to go over there. This is where you got to be. This is where you're going to find me. I was over there training with those guys doing my own jujitsu under their instruction. And I realized now that while people were coming consistently,
Dennis Campo (24:47.196)
Thank
Ken Knight (24:54.097)
to our gym to take the class that I was leading, nobody has kept it up since making that change. So your concept, you're thinking of, am I providing something that gets somebody doing something, is a real one. Because I kind of have a backwards struggle now. I turned it off to do, and I still believe that it was the best thing for them if they wanted to truly do well.
Dennis Campo (25:02.46)
Mm.
Ken Knight (25:22.727)
They had the opportunity, but something about that change, be it at the night of the week or the time of the day or the instructor or the place, or I don't know what it was, but for them it led to zero. And that was a surprise.
Andrew Adams (25:35.326)
Hmm. Interesting. Dennis, do you have thoughts?
Dennis Campo (25:40.334)
So it's funny, I'm just the opposite. My school was called the gym. We were the, you know, boxing, kickboxing karate gym. You know, but just, it's just a matter of semantics and what works for your particular style and your region. But it was kind of a hybrid. So we still, we would still bow in before and after class because some of that tradition, some of it, that tradition is incredibly important respecting
Andrew Adams (25:44.35)
You
Nick (25:45.201)
Thank
Dennis Campo (26:04.827)
our place of training and respecting each other. Certainly for the drills rather than bow every time, we would just touch gloves. a lot of our work was done in gloves. We really focused a lot on boxing and kickboxing. But what I found over the years, as a boxer, we have four punches, jab, cross, hook, and an uppercut. Four punches, that's it. But there's so much strategy. And of course, if it's kickboxing, you add a few kicks to it. But it's the strategy, it's the science, the sweet science to it.
you see the correlation between whether it's traditional karate or taekwondo, jiu-jitsu, boxing, you're talking about timing, distancing, positioning. There's so much correlation. We are so much more the same, so much more similar than we are different. And for all the differences we have in our respective sports or our arts or styles, there's such a tremendous correlation between them. Which is why I found that bringing different pieces together
into one program, it seemed to work. At least, you from 2000 to 2021, that timeframe in just North and New York City, it worked for that area. And we certainly, for the first five or six years, we experimented with lot of different programs and the stuff that Nick is talking about, breaking up the classes into different strategies, into different modules, and then bringing it all together. We found a rhythm that really worked for us.
But it's interesting to see how we have three different, and really four different mindsets here. If you look on the surface, but as you take a deeper dive, you can see where there was a lot of similarity to where our thought processes and really our ultimate goal is to empower the people that come through our door to become their absolute best. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (27:51.679)
Yeah, exactly. I was going to hit on that too, Dennis. It's funny you picked up on that as well. That we here at Whistlekick, we get people all the time contacting us, hey, I'm moving to this place and do you know of a good school? Or sometimes they even like, I'm looking for a Shotokon school, for example. And my response is always,
I don't, it doesn't matter what style it is. It doesn't matter where the school is. It needs to be a school that you, feel comfortable going to on a regular basis because you connect with the instructor. And Ken, this is something that, you know, when we break down what happened, I think with your situation is you started offering these classes because you thought it would benefit your students and you know, had, you had these separate classes and then you just, you realized.
You know what, if these students really want to progress, they should go over here. You gave them that ability. You led the way. You gave them the yellow brick road to better themselves. And most of them chose to just stop training. So they were happy with you as the instructor is what I'm hearing. And they are now not being serviced at all. so, you know, Nick, I know you're thinking about
Dennis Campo (29:14.006)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (29:17.756)
splitting these classes now as well. think that's something to keep in mind as well, you
So, anyway, just food for thought. Ken, it looked like you had something there you wanted to say.
Dennis Campo (29:26.904)
Next.
Ken Knight (29:30.954)
Yeah, so I'll add something myself so just adding into what I'm going through too And it is kind of unfortunate to learn that it is you know that I've lost those people that they're not being served anymore, Speaking of you mentioned. Hey, we're all different people different ideas and the same common goal of empowering people and I am gonna agree and Disagree and the reason I disagree is because of where I've been mentally lately
is and I don't know if it's an age thing, mortality thing or what, is I really want to give what I was given. I could easily, I know, I mean, the marketing and the ways to make people happy, like it's obvious what people want to create a thing that people want, I don't think is actually that challenging. You could run yourself into the ground providing people what they want.
In my opinion, the martial arts has never been about what people want. It's about what people need and somebody guiding the way of knowing what that thing is that you think you need this, but you actually need this or you need some of that, but you need more of this. And so it would be easy to fill a gym and make lots of money pursuing making everybody happy. And that's kind of exactly the thing that I ran away from is cause now I'm looking at it.
Dennis Campo (30:38.971)
Hmm.
Ken Knight (30:56.177)
I would say to you, Nick, as you're thinking through this, what is your goal for you? What are you trying to accomplish? For me, I'm at a place where I now I want to pass on what I was given. I'm not going be able to do it forever. Knock me around forever. And our bodies age. Some of the things that we're able to do, we won't be able to do the same way or do at all at some point. And so I want to be able to pass that into people who could pass it on and pass it on. Honor what I was given.
And so now it's like I am running a very small school and going, you aren't here because you want this specifically, you want to learn it from me, you want to learn what you've seen that I'm here to share, then I don't know if I have time. There are other gyms, are other things, there are people that want to run that fitness program. I have strong feelings on the whole self-defense thing because I think it's mostly soft skills and very few hard skills.
And that means it's its own class and nobody wants that class. Everybody wants to go hit something and feel empowered. But the truth is setting boundaries in your life is how you determine how to keep yourself safe and know when there's a problem that needs to be made aware or addressed. But each of those things take time. There's only so many hours of the day. So, you know, I ask you like, what's your goal? Mine is kind of clear. I want to give what I was given. I want to give what I've also
gained over time, my own, what I've picked up. And I don't really want to spend a lot of time starting over. I don't want to spend a lot of time making people feel good about it. I've had people when I've kind of pushed, they've started showing up less or not showing up at all. I'm like, you know what? Normally I would care, but now I don't. If you don't want to do the work to get it, then there's a place for you, but it's not here. And if you're ready to do the work, let's go.
Andrew Adams (32:53.407)
I think as we look at wrapping up, obviously we could go for hours and hours. I know, Ken, I know you the least, but I know Nick and Dennis pretty well. I know we could go for hours, but I want to start winding down here. think we would all agree there are benefits to splitting classes, to having separate classes.
Nick (33:00.223)
Mm-hmm.
Dennis Campo (33:00.987)
yeah.
Nick (33:09.34)
Yeah.
Dennis Campo (33:13.755)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (33:21.853)
But there are obviously some downsides to it as well. And I think ultimately, it really boils down to what you as the instructor want to do for your students and what you think will be best. And none of us here can tell anyone else what the right way is. It just comes down to what you as an instructor are looking to get out of that situation. as we wind down here,
Dennis Campo (33:22.511)
Yes.
Andrew Adams (33:47.965)
Dennis, do you have any final thoughts, anything that you want to make sure we get in?
Dennis Campo (33:51.871)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, to your point, Andrew, there is no one right way. Each of us has a way and a way that probably works really well for us and for the way we teach and the way we inspire our students. But I think Ken has a really great mindset of if my way does work for you, there is certainly a way that makes sense for you. And my friend down the street who teaches this might be the way for you to go. And I think about the self-defense talk earlier.
I certainly have strong feelings around the self-defense space as well. I feel that the best place to get your self-defense training is really in whether traditional martial arts dojo or gym, kickboxing or boxing or jiu-jitsu gym, where it's that repetitive motion. You build in those hard skills that just happen, that muscle memory that where you can just respond to whatever the threat might be. Certainly before that, you don't put yourself in situations where you're exposed to danger.
Sometimes it finds you, but it's the constant training and conditioning. It's running on the treadmill or running outside, having all of those skills built to help you protect yourself. It's not a two hour course that you took three years ago that you remember this little trick you do with the wrist. It has to be that continued work. The best athletes, you see them perform, you don't see all the hard work that they've done leading up to those games.
It's all that work that we put into our dojos or gyms that will ultimately be what helps us to protect ourselves and our families in the long term.
Andrew Adams (35:25.587)
Yeah, for sure. Nick, final thoughts?
Nick (35:28.714)
Yeah, mean, it's mirroring both of what everybody's saying here is like. As far as like what do I want to pass on like yeah, I want people to be able to do what they love to do longer and you know my martial arts and in my internal practices like they're helping me do that. So it's kind of same on the same standpoint is like this is what I'm doing. This is what's working for me. If it looks like something that you would like to do, here are the steps to do that and that's that's that's where I'm at right now with.
how I would like to instruct going forward. So I appreciate that input on that. And I think we all kind of want to pass that on. We all want, that's why we're here on these, doing these talks and stuff. We all want people to do more of arts, because we're biased, but in the long run, we all want better, more enriched, healthier, happier lives. And we just all happen to believe that at least some aspect of what we do in martial arts is
Ken Knight (36:16.189)
you
Nick (36:25.527)
is going to help along along the way with that. And I think that's where I'm coming from with this. Like, do I want to separate the things out? Like is, you know, maybe just got to dip your toes in the water. Maybe you don't realize like this is for you and then so and then go to the deeper ones, so to speak. So I appreciate I appreciate the conversation. It's given me a lot of a lot to think about and a lot to help with my own decision. So thank you.
Andrew Adams (36:47.291)
Excellent. I would say for our listeners or viewers, our goal here at Whistlekick has never been to tell you, the listener, what is the right way. It is always meant as a way for you to think about what we're talking about. you know, there's no right way. But if we can make you think about it, that's our goal. Ken, before I wrap us up at the very end, do you have any final words here?
Ken Knight (37:15.235)
Sure, think the last thing I would add if you're, if anybody listening to this is thinking about splitting classes and stuff is pay attention to your resources, the people that you have. Cause I think the biggest challenge I faced keeping everything separate and all of that is, is trying to track and maintain and have time for all of it. The more you bring in, the more there is to cover and you're still one person. You're still going to get sick sometimes. You're still going to need to recover sometimes. You're still going to get called out for work or whatever.
So what helped me a lot was identifying the resources in my school, the students or senior students or different people that I could implement and integrate in a way to make sure that each divided class that had its specific focus had more than just me as an individual resource because it's just really hard to breaking all of that out and keeping it all straight if you don't have a strategy.
Andrew Adams (38:16.379)
Okay, good, thoughts for sure. Again, if you're new to the show, thank you for listening. We really appreciate you being here. Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio is where you can go to find out about all of our episodes, which I didn't mention at the beginning, but they're all free. It costs nothing to listen to all of our episodes. And I will tell you that it is not a free podcast to produce. So if you would like to help us,
Dennis Campo (38:17.485)
Great comment.
Andrew Adams (38:43.047)
We would really appreciate that you can go to patreon.com forward slash whistle kick And heck five dollars a month less than the cup of a coffee sixty dollars a year. That's nothing help us make this show It really would would appreciate that Whistlekick commons where you can go to find out about all the other things that we do the events that we host training seminars Books all that stuff you can find at whistlekick.com and
Lastly, there was one other thing I wanted to say. I forgot it. It must not have been important. My mom would say it must have been a lie. If you forgot that quickly, that's what my mom would say. last, I'll add this. If you are watching on YouTube, please click that like and subscribe button. It really does help the algorithm. Share it with a friend. One of the biggest things you can do if you can't afford $5 a month, share this episode with a friend or any one of our other episodes. Help us.
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