Episode 1018 - Sensei Neil Prime
In this episode, Andrew chats with Sensei Neil Prime about his Wado karate journey, his training with legendary kickboxer Joe Lewis as well as his work as a member of the Shintani Wado Kai Senate.
Sensei Neil Prime - Episode 1018
SUMMARY
In this episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Sensei Neil Prime shares his journey in martial arts, starting from his early days in the late 1970s. He discusses his introduction to Wado karate, the influence of his instructor Sensei Shintani, and the evolution of his training from traditional karate to full contact. Sensei Prime reflects on the challenges of balancing martial arts with school and other sports, the importance of discipline, and the strategies he learned from renowned martial artists.
He emphasizes the significance of enjoyment in martial arts and the community aspect of training. He also discusses the importance of good people, diversity in training, and the influence of legendary figures like Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace and Sensei Shintani. He shares insights on cross-training, the need for international recognition in martial arts, and his current training practices, highlighting the significance of community and personal growth in the martial arts journey.
TAKEAWAYS
Neil Prime's martial arts journey began at a flea market in 1978.
Sensei Shintani's unique approach focused on individual growth without harsh training methods.
Sensei Shintani's background influenced his teaching style and philosophy.
Neil has remained a part of the Shintani Wado-Kai Karate Federation since his training began.
The mental discipline learned in martial arts translates well to other sports like golf and baseball.
Neil's training evolved from traditional karate to include full contact sparring.
The importance of strategy in martial arts was emphasized by mentors like Joe Lewis.
Enjoyment and fun are crucial elements in martial arts training.
Diversity in training is essential for growth.
Cross-training helps students develop their own style.
It's important to keep an open mind in martial arts.
Training with legends offers unique perspectives on the sport.
Community and collaboration are vital in martial arts.
The journey in martial arts is about personal growth, not just rank.
Teaching others helps reinforce your own knowledge.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
03:09 Neil Prime's Martial Arts Origin Story
07:10 Training in the Late 70s: Challenges and Experiences
08:16 The Style of Karate: Wado and Its History
10:40 Sensei Shintani's Unique Approach to Training
11:57 Continuing the Journey: Staying with Wado
14:10 Balancing Martial Arts with School and Other Sports
16:36 The Interplay of Martial Arts and Other Sports
19:11 Evolving Training: From Traditional to Full Contact
24:15 First Full Contact Match Experience
27:13 Involvement in the Martial Arts Community
28:20 Journey to the Senate: A Martial Arts Legacy
33:04 Cross-Training and Its Importance in Martial Arts
37:15 International Recognition and Growth in Martial Arts
42:35 Training with Legends: The Impact of Joe Lewis
46:12 Current Training Practices and Future Aspirations
This episode is sponsored by Kataaro. Please check out their site at www.kataaro.com and use the code WK10 to save 10% off your first order. And be sure to ask them about a wholesale account for school owners!
All orders for Autism Awareness belts in March and April will see 50% of the PROFITS donated to the International Society for Autism Research!
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Andrew Adams (04:29.893)
Welcome, you're listening or watching to the next episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio and today we're joined by Sensei Neil Prime. Sensei, thank you for being here.
Neil Prime (04:38.894)
Well, thank you very much for having me.
Andrew Adams (04:40.911)
Before we get into our chat, I want to make sure to let our listeners know about all the stuff that we do here at Whistlekick. Obviously this podcast is but one small part of what we do. You can find everything that we do at Whistlekick.com. Everything from apparel like shirts or hats or hoodies, hooded sweatshirts or sparring gear. Maybe you'd like to purchase a book. Maybe you'd like to purchase a training program to help you.
becomes faster or stronger or more flexible. All of that stuff you can find at whistlekick.com and you can use the code podcast one five to save yourself 15 % on most everything there. You also can go to whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com to find out all you can about this show directly. and at the top there, you will find, a subscribe button so that you can, get connected to our newsletter.
which is specifically for this podcast. You can also there find all of the episodes that we've done over 1000 episodes, show notes on all the episodes, transcripts, photos from past guests, all of that stuff you can find there. And I also want to let you know that this episode is sponsored by Kotaro. For those that don't know, Kotaro, K-A-T-A-A-R-O.
is the world's leading most amazing martial arts belts that you can possibly find. This month, last month in this month, March and April, they are donating 50 % of the profits to International Society for Autism Research from their autism awareness belts, which I'm putting a picture right here so you can see the picture of the belt. They have this really cool belt that has the, for those that are familiar with autism,
One of the logos is four puzzle pieces, different colors that are interlocked together. and they have embroidered that at the end of their belt and they just do some amazing stuff and all of their, their theme belts can be found at their website and you can use the code WK 10 to be used on all of their first time orders, including this autism awareness belt.
Andrew Adams (06:47.377)
And as I mentioned, 50 % of those profits will be donated to the International Society for Autism Awareness. They also have wholesale discounts as well. And they're all handcrafted right in the United States. without further ado, Sensei Prime, thank you so much for being here. Excited to have you on the show.
Neil Prime (07:06.692)
I'm excited as well. This last one.
Andrew Adams (07:08.945)
Yeah. So every comic book has an origin story, right? Every superhero on the planet has an origin story. Now that's not to say that we're superheroes, but we are martial artists. So we're kind of halfway there already. I would love to get, what is your origin story? How did you get started in what we do today?
Neil Prime (07:33.774)
I was at a flea market in a local mall and well, I'll say it was around 1978 and saw a poster of a Japanese man throwing a kick and advertising karate lessons and the gentlemen that I were with at the time very close friends were very interested I'll be honest I just tagged along
They wanted to go, my one friend had been in judo before and as a result of a fairly bad accident he had to quit for a couple years but we were about 14, 15 years old at the time and this is what they wanted to do so I thought what the heck, what am I gonna do if I'm not hanging around? So we went down the following week and we met a man named Mizuro Shintani and
I was immediately struck by his aura. And I don't know if I believe in auras or not, but there was certainly something about this gentleman that captured my attention. And he was just so soft spoken and so confident. He didn't put on a hard sell or anything like that. He just said, this is what we do. Come on out and give it a try. a couple of minutes later, the class started.
And when I saw him move, you could feel the ground moving. It was just so intense coming out of this soft, spoking gentleman, you know, and then two minutes later, just feeling the energy in the room just rise the more and more he continued. I honestly don't know if we were there for five minutes or an hour, but we were just like, yes, we're coming back. Absolutely.
And there was a whole bunch of us that actually started at the beginning. I'm to say 10, 11 of us. And I believe that I was the only one who went past Yellow Belt out of that whole crew. I don't know if it was just a matter of it wasn't for them. I know it's not for everybody, but I was hooked. I was hooked. You couldn't keep me away from that point.
Andrew Adams (09:54.967)
Now it's interesting. late seventies, you were being 14 at the time. There weren't a lot of instructors then teaching kids. what was that like training at that time at that age?
Neil Prime (10:10.286)
Um, I had to keep up. was, uh, there wasn't actually a lot of kids. It was, it was an open class and, was certainly one of the younger ones, but, uh, already by 14, I was almost six feet tall, but I was probably only about 125 pounds. So clumsy as heck, uh, had almost no coordination at all. Um, and, uh, no, I just, I just worked it. I just worked it. Um, I, I.
I eventually grew into my body and became fairly athletic, which was nice for doing any sport. But yeah, it was just one of those things where this was the drill and this is what we're doing. And there was a lot of bigger guys and sure, I was intimidated when I first started, but then I realized that everybody there wanted to help you. They weren't bullying you, they weren't pushing you. They would push you.
but not beyond or to a breaking point. wasn't like that at all.
Andrew Adams (11:16.483)
And, and you mentioned that it was karate, but what was it a specific style that you were training at that point?
Neil Prime (11:22.986)
It's Wado, Wado Roo is the main style where it derived from. And there's a bit of a history there. Our instructor, Mizuru Shintani, grew up in the internment camps out in British Columbia. His family was put in after the second world war because of all the paranoia going on in the world at the time. And there was a gentleman in the camp at the same time. His name was Akira.
and since Shintani's mother didn't want him around that gentleman at all she just felt that he was a bad influence but of course when he was young that gave him all the more reason to go and seek him out and he's a karakya Nagawa saw this group of young boys that were watching him and eventually called them over and started teaching them and
That was his introduction to karate. And his introduction to karate was different than most people, especially today. His introduction was life and death. That's how they survived, was by being strong mentally and physically. after the internment camps had been broken apart and let out, a lot of the Japanese that were originally Japanese-born went back to Japan.
they were not going to put up with the way that they were treated. Sensei Shintani was Canadian born and his mother felt that they were going to stay in Canada. They did move out of the BC area and come to Niagara in Ontario. And that's where he continued his training. He taught at that time a lot of judo with his karate. when he met
Hiranori Otsuka a number of years later. He had already been considered a master at that time because that was around 6th Dan. And since he took a liking to him, their personalities must have just matched. They got along with their family. Their roots both had samurai roots. So that was another reason why they connected so well.
Neil Prime (13:52.236)
He basically, within a very, very short time, became the in charge of Wado in all of North America and eventually branded the name Shintani Wado Kai karate. Wado Kai being federation as opposed to Roo being a school or a style. So that is the unique, that's why we have that unique name.
Andrew Adams (14:18.607)
Now Shintani sensei's introduction to martial arts, introduction to karate through the internment camp, definitely different from many others. And that training I suspect for him was very different. Did any of that, did any of those life or death situ, I don't say situations, but you know, it was very different for him than it was for you. Certainly when it was for I, but
Neil Prime (14:40.898)
You can.
Andrew Adams (14:42.147)
I have to imagine that some of those training methods or ideologies may have carried over. Is that something you saw in your training as you started out with him?
Neil Prime (14:52.078)
Sensei Shintani was a very unique man in the matter of he did not feel that people had to go through what he went through. And he told us the stories of things that he went through and he never trained us like that. He didn't have us standing in front of trees punching off the bark until your knuckles were bleeding and raw. know, the body strengthening that they did.
He just wouldn't put us through that. He said that was almost like torture, but they had the mindset that this is what they had to do. So he was all about bringing the best out of every individual, pushing their limits, but not breaking people.
Andrew Adams (15:40.209)
And you are clearly not 14 years old now. Like this was 1978. You have done a lot since then. Where after you were, know, or not after, how long were you with that particular Wado school and what was that transition like when, you left?
Neil Prime (15:46.392)
Thank you.
Neil Prime (15:57.472)
I've never left. I am a part of the Shintani Wadokai Karate Federation today. I am on the Senate of the Federation, which is the governing body. I trained with Sensei Shintani until his passing. At one point in my training, I'm going to say that was about eight to 10 years into it, his organization had grown so much that he stopped teaching at individual schools.
Andrew Adams (15:59.258)
Awesome answer.
Neil Prime (16:27.278)
but had gone around the country supporting his black belts and helping them build their schools and making sure that they were on the right path as far as the teachings of Sensei Otsuka. He made a very big change on how he taught coming from a Shoren-Ru, Okinawan Shoren-Ru
changing to Watto like his his original style was very strong as opposed to I'm not saying Watto's not strong but it's much more fluid it's it's rounded I mean Sensei Otsuka was probably 135 140 pounds very very small man and had to learn how to defend against much bigger people with a jujitsu background so it was it was all about using the other person's body against them
But he immersed himself in that and he made a promise that when he changed and when he took on Sensei Osaka as his instructor, that that's what he would teach and that's what he stuck to. That was his regiment.
Andrew Adams (17:40.899)
Now, as a, you know, 14, 15 year old high school student at that point, you know, as you're getting into high school, we, all know everybody listening knows that keeping kids at that age involved in something is difficult. How did you. How was it for you having all of these other things pulling you in different directions, going into school and whatnot, but having the dojo there as a, as a base to,
Keep you pulled in it's it's difficult basically for kids to stay involved in it. And how did you manage that?
Neil Prime (18:18.353)
I'll be honest, mean, my parents knew that I was interested in it, but they weren't standing over me with a whip telling me that this is what I had to do. I did have breaks, a number of breaks, know, a couple of months here, a couple of months there. I didn't think I ever went a, you know, like more than six months without a break, but those breaks were based on workload, school load, transitioning from high school into the working world and that sort of thing.
But once I got all that behind me and I could structure my own life, it was just the thing to do. I just never left. I played ball, baseball for a number of years. As a matter of fact, Sensei Shintani was a professional pitcher.
Not at the top level, but at a farm club level. And so his passion for baseball was incredible. And he would tell stories about that. And he's one of these people who actually, he was left-handed. He blew out his left shoulder and learned to pitch right-handed and still managed to play at a very, very high level of baseball. But again, that was something on the side for him.
The other passion I have as far as sports go is golf, which is completely opposite. Completely opposite. I think the... Well, I say physically it's opposite, but the mental game is very, very much the same. The only difference with karate and golf is I swear on the golf course, but I don't swear in the dojo.
Andrew Adams (20:09.297)
That's funny. Yeah, I mean, obviously there's a huge aspect of mental preparation for both martial arts and golf. I don't want the listeners to think baseball doesn't have mental aspects to it as well. Obviously it does. How did your martial training help you in your other sports? And conversely, how did working through baseball and golf help you with your martial arts?
Neil Prime (20:23.278)
Mm-hmm.
Neil Prime (20:36.174)
I think when you get immersed into any sport, you learn discipline. Obviously, you're going to have body conditioning and you're going to develop your athleticism. And of course, that's at all kinds of different levels. I've met a number of different professionals in every sport, and they're unique people. To be able to take your game to the top and be highlighted in the world is a...
It's an amazing accomplishment that if you think about it, it's such a small percentage of people. But that doesn't mean you can't push yourself to your limits. That doesn't mean you can't have a training regiment. And that doesn't mean that you can't develop a strong, strong mental focus. I'm sure I'm fairly flexible. So that helped. Sticking on the golf, I remember when
was getting fitted for my very, very first set of custom made clubs. The guy said, I've never seen anybody with a backswing like yours because the way it can twist and torque, know, get that, get that twist right over. Right. And I explained to him, I was in martial arts, right. And he said, well, he says that's certainly helping because I mean, my, my swing in golf is probably over a hundred miles now. Maybe not today. You know, I'm, I am getting a little bit old.
but on average it was over 100 miles an hour. That's all body torque. And baseball, same thing. Although that was 100 % recreational for me. I wasn't great, but I had fun. And you gotta have fun when you're doing anything. And it's the same thing with martial arts today. I still have fun. I still love working the traditional katas that we do, and I love sparring.
And I love bringing the 19, 20 year old kids in there and not beating them up, but showing them that the old man can still do a couple of rounds. So yeah, it's fun. It's fun. It has to be.
Andrew Adams (22:44.369)
Now, so started as a high school student go through, you know, into your twenties thirties. I'm assuming that training had to have been a slightly different. What's the next part of your martial journey? I mean, I don't mean next part. I know you're still doing wado and you're still training in the same style, but there has been a lot of times since then and now, and I'm sure there's a lot of things that happened, a lot of stories or whatever. Um, and your training likely has changed.
from in your twenties to today. Can we talk a little bit about what it was like in those earlier days?
Neil Prime (23:18.368)
Yeah, mean, you have to continually look for ways of stimulating yourself, okay, your mind to keep you interested and active. But I also wanted to know if this karate stuff actually worked, you know, obviously without going out and trying it on strangers in alleyways or anything like that. But as far as the sport goes, and in 1992,
Myself and four other gentlemen went down to Radford, Virginia, where they hold the Crotty College, which was founded by Jerry Beasley and of course, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace and Jeff Smith were the original instructors there. Meeting Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace at that point in time certainly changed my outlook. Now,
That doesn't mean I lost my karate roots. I've always known where home is, but I certainly took a different approach as far as my training goes. I trained physically harder. The strategies that I learned from Joe Lewis in particular, as far as strategy goes, because I could move more like him than Bill Wallace, but nobody can move like Bill Wallace. So it's just.
You do the best you can and hope, right? But, you know, was only a couple of years later that I actually ended up finding a few people locally and training the full contact aspect of the sport. it was, I traveled as much as I could. Anytime Mr. Lewis or Mr. Wallace were anywhere within a reasonable driving distance.
I was at that seminar and I was training with them and it was actually Joe Lewis who talked me into fighting full contact, getting in the ring. He said, you have to do it at least once. I felt I was too old because at that time I was already in my thirties, early thirties, 31, somewhere around there. And he told me, didn't matter. You got to do it. He says,
Neil Prime (25:40.954)
You've got it, you've got the talent for it. He says, you've got the mindset for it. He says, you got to do it. And when somebody like Joe Lewis says that to you, you better listen. also, yes, I took that approach. I trained full contact for much longer than I competed just because I enjoyed that level of Wallace. It's a rush. It's completely different. You're really, really conditioning your body and your mind.
but just had a blast with it. you know, keeping the mindset of, of one, one is a sport different than the traditional side. could compete or be in the gym on a Friday night and fight full contact and go to a point tournament the next day and respect the rules of the point tournament. never ever got disqualified in a point tournament while I was fighting full contact. made up, I made up
mental point that I wasn't going to take it to that level and you know, it's We fight hard in our traditional karate tournaments. It's it's very different than sport karate Sport karate has its place. I'm not knocking it but it is different It's in in our traditional karate You're not given a point unless you can stop the person or you could injure the person
You can't get a point if you even if you strike them as they're moving away because that's that's not concussive type of blow And you have to have all of these things in your head and still have the control we went pretty hard on the body, but they're pretty Strict about the contact to the head now that's not saying you can't score to the head but You have to respect the fact that you're only wearing like a one or two ounce glove
And that's really just only going to stop you from bleeding or cutting. Well, if you get a hit in the nose, you're to bleed. it's going to stop the cutting for the most part. So it is the control that you have to have. And when I started back in the 70s, we had these little nylon pads that would cover your knuckles. And that was it. And we wore a groin cup, a mouth guard, and these little pads. And that was it. Today, it's much safer. And it should be. It absolutely should be.
Neil Prime (28:08.034)
But yeah, just have to know what game you're playing and respect it.
Andrew Adams (28:15.929)
talk a little bit about that first full contact match that you had. What was that like?
Neil Prime (28:23.246)
building up to it was, probably more nerve wracking than when I actually got in the ring. I was, you get into a zone and, once, once I was in the zone, it didn't matter. I pushed, I pushed, I pushed. I did not have any intentions of trying to knock the person out. my strategy was to point them to death.
and that's what I did and being a kicker you know I talked to Bill Wallace and in a kickboxing match you need eight kicks before you get any point deductions per round and my average kicks were over 20 per round so it takes a lot more energy obviously to lift your leg than it does a punch but
I used my height to my advantage. was 6'2". I was fighting around 185 pounds, so I definitely had a height advantage over most people. And I used that to my advantage, you know? You gotta realize your strengths and your weaknesses, and that was it. I just played the game. It was all about strategy at that point in time.
Andrew Adams (29:44.965)
Yeah. And that certainly at that point and at any point, let's face it there, there's, know, Joe Lewis has unfortunately passed away, but Bill Wallace is still an incredible, stratitician. Is that a word? I don't know. Yeah, sure. but, but obviously there's a lot of strategy and you couldn't get much better than, than Joe Lewis and, and Bill Wallace, obviously. the, you mentioned that you're now helping run the organization.
Neil Prime (29:57.378)
That works.
Andrew Adams (30:13.743)
that you are on the committee, is that right?
Neil Prime (30:13.826)
Yes.
Yes, yes, we call it the Senate, but it's basically the governing body.
Andrew Adams (30:20.025)
Senate. Talk a little bit about how you got there. you know, that we just talked about your full contact in the nineties. Again, we're, we're now recording this in 2025. A lot of time has passed. What happened there in the middle? How did you get from there to here?
Neil Prime (30:39.166)
being a direct student of Senshi Shintani, and knowing him well and even being friends, with his son, Sharman, gave me some, real clear insights as to what his vision was for the future. and Senshi Shintani was really all about good people. That was the most important thing to him was, was good people. So.
In trying to keep that spirit preserved and those ideals preserved, it was kind of a natural progression for me. At the same time, I've always kept an international presence. I still work out with Mr. Wallace today, and I am the Canadian representative for the Superfoot system.
So we're in constant contact with each other. I promote that. And how that relates to being with the organization we are now, we need diversity. We need to train the traditional system, but we need to have people's eyes open to say, like, I think having a base style is very, important, but that doesn't mean that you can't
supplement with other things that are going to stimulate you and or Bring those influences into the organization That's another reason why? The last few years Our organizing a number of clubs in our organization have hooked up with the the world kabuto Federation run by John Tarian and that Alain say II and Probably the biggest name in that organization Johnny's terry
And maybe not a lot of people in the States would know, but Wally Slocke was probably one of the biggest international competitors from Canada at the time. He was the gentleman who came second place to Jeff Smith when the PKA first started and they set those first champions. mean, he's had an incredible influence on Canadian martial arts.
Neil Prime (33:02.03)
international martial arts, should say, really. And he actually received a black belt from Sensei Shintani also in Nidan in 1964. So he has, again, you know, people look at him from a very open sport perspective, but his roots are very, very much traditional as well. And we've had great, great conversations about martial arts in Canada.
about traditional martial arts, what it was like in the 60s versus the 70s and the 80s because they were all very, very different eras. In the 60s, everyone was kind of in silos. In the 70s, everybody started working together. And in the 80s, everyone decided that they were better than everybody else and they could do their own thing. I think now, 2025, you'll see more groups amalgamating with each other. There's always going to be...
leaders who have alpha opinions, but the ones that can work together, they're the ones that are going to benefit the most. And that's what we try to do. Those are the, those are the things that I want to keep in the Shintani Wadokai Kradi Federation is the fact that we can work well with others and showcase our style.
since he started a competition team a number of years ago. And he basically said, I don't care if we lose every single match. Our katas aren't as flavorful, you know, for lack of better terms, as some of the competition katas that they're using. But he says, we're going to show them what we do. And that's it. And we still have a national team today.
that we still try to instill the values of what Sensei Shintani taught.
Andrew Adams (35:04.869)
That cross training piece, think is important. and I think you mentioned that sensation Tani also trained judo for a long time. and, and I think having an instructor that has also cross trained helps. how are you continuing to get that cross training in the organization to this day? mean, obviously you mentioned you're still working with, Bill Wallace, but other, are you
Neil Prime (35:15.128)
Mm-hmm.
Neil Prime (35:31.47)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (35:33.243)
branching out into other avenues as well.
Neil Prime (35:36.526)
I do teach different seminars. I will teach the most traditional and I will teach the not traditional. I will do sparring strategies. I developed a course based on a lot of my influence of Joe Lewis on strategies on how to look at your opponent.
and decide what their advantages are and what their disadvantages are and how you can capitalize that. Understanding somebody's advantages is a good thing as well.
Neil Prime (36:17.774)
I think that you have to give people options because if you're going to limit your students to what you do only, they'll never do it as good as you. There are certainly things that they can do better than you, but if you stop them from doing that, you're putting them in a box and you have to allow them grow. Since you Shintani, when I first started bringing
people into the organization like Joe Lewis for example. One of the higher ranking instructors asked me outright he says does Mr. Shintani approve this and does he know what you're doing? And knowing Sensei Shintani I didn't even think about that I was doing anything wrong but I called him and I asked and he said Neil absolutely he said you take advantage of everything that you can and you learn.
And he said, you bring back what you learn. It's as simple as that. keeping everybody with an open mind is very, very important because we're all different body sizes and structures and we have different ways of thinking. It has to come out different. Even within our own organization, we promote training with as many different structures and we have regional workouts on a regular basis. We have black belt workouts on a regular basis.
that something that COVID taught us was how to use Zoom. So we continue in our organization to have high belt workouts on Zoom. We don't do it as much, but through COVID it was a weekly basis. we do minimum of three national workouts for all black belts. We have Zoom workouts for our high ranking instructors.
so that we can make sure that we're doing things the same as far as getting the root core of our style across and working the forms and that sort of thing. But yeah, if you're gonna put somebody in a box, they're gonna get to the point where they say, can't do this anymore, learned all I can learn and that's it. If you allow them to think for themselves.
Neil Prime (38:39.054)
You know, it's like that fishing story. You give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, but you teach him how to fish, he'll eat forever, right? So it's exact same thing. People have to be stimulated and they have to find a way to stimulate themselves.
Andrew Adams (38:54.009)
Yeah. Yep. and I think most of our audience will understand that and get that and agree. you also met, you know, with your involvement with the Wado Senate, what sort of things are you working towards or working towards growing and gaining within that organization?
Neil Prime (39:15.712)
International recognition. That is what I mean. I'm a technical advisor, but we have lots of instructors. We have lots of great instructors, but not everybody can get out and travel the way I do. I'm very, very fortunate. My wife supports me 100%. I'm off for a weekend here, weekend there, traveling around North America.
and getting that presence out. I started going to these clinics like the karate college in 1992 for personal gain. But now it's way more than that. I still get personal gain out of it, but I'm a representative of the people that teach me. I'm a representative of the Shantani karate federation. I'm a representative of Mr. Wallace and you know, even
Even though I was not graded to a black belt under Mr. Lewis, which was a very, very big mistake on my part, I still represent him because he was a major, major part of my training. I trained with him a lot, you know, and that was, and when I say that was a mistake.
We had conversations about being graded and both Mr. Lewis and Mr. Wallace didn't really start their organizations until they were very, very late in life. Too late, really. And although they're going well, it would have been a very, very different picture if they would have started in their 30s or 40s as opposed to later on in their life.
And we had talked about grading in the Joe Lewis Federation. And I said to him, said, you know what? said, having a black belt under you would be an immense honor. said, but to me, it's not about the rank. It's about what can I do in between? said, I don't know if I'm going to be training with you three, four, six times this year or once.
Neil Prime (41:28.152)
just because of the miles in between. He's in North Carolina, I'm in Southern Ontario, and to visit him 14 hours is a long way away. So I made the mistake by just letting it go. Although he pushed me a bunch, The day that I got the news that he died, (Joe Lewis) it left a hole in my heart, and I realized,
man did I make a mistake because the belt wasn't about me. The belt would have been representing him. And that's what I think a black belt is. It's about representing your roots. Sure, it's an achievement. You're the one who's got to get there. And this is why I have a little issue and I don't want to get into, know, people don't deserve ranks and stuff like that. But why do we need the ranks that we have?
Andrew Adams (42:03.419)
Mm.
Neil Prime (42:26.126)
today, if you're not truly exceptional, whether it be physically, or you're doing something for your organization, or you're not passing your style along to as many people as you can, you don't need those ranks. You don't need that recognition. Anybody who makes it up to say fifth degree black belt, to me that is a pinnacle. When you're a fifth degree black belt, that means you are solid in your style.
You can teach that style. You can make decisions for that style. you're, if you're just, if you're stuck in your own club and you're, and you're not absorbing everything that's out there, you don't need anything more than that. And, you know, I, I'm, I'm pretty strong minded about that, right? It's, it's not, it, karate is not an individual thing. Although, although it's an individual who's doing it singularly.
It is about the growth of the art.
Andrew Adams (44:35.971)
Obviously, Joe Lewis was clearly a huge part of your life in your training at that time. That's not to say that others weren't, but clearly he had a huge impact on your life. Talk a little bit more about what that was like training with him.
Neil Prime (44:58.51)
He's probably one of the most intense people you could ever meet He was he was strong in the body in the mind he was an exceptional human being and I I like to think that I could soften him mentally sometimes throw him off with a joke or a comment or something like that because I'm a you know as intense as I could be
I like to have that fun in it. And if he said something really serious, you know, if you come up with something that he's not expecting, he would just glare at me for a minute and laugh. Right. So that was, that was that, that was a big part. But he got me thinking, I, since he Shintani gave me excellent, excellent basics and the strategies that I was using.
Andrew Adams (45:38.142)
Ha
Neil Prime (45:53.922)
prior to Joe Lewis worked in a traditional manner in our tournaments and You know even as far as basic self-defense techniques go but Mr. Lewis got me thinking a lot more about Different different distancings different timing he was in the game at a level that
very, very few people ever get to. So just having the opportunity to get inside his head. Even if, you know, I remember picking him up at the airport and we went for a burger after, that's something that him and Mr. Wallace have in common. They both love their burgers, right? you know, finding out about the personal Joe Lewis or the personal Bill Wallace or the personal Missouri Shantani was important to me.
because it's just not all about the physical. Getting into their head about what their family values are and that sort of thing. there's a commonality for sure. There's a big respect that they have for people. And about sharing. And that's what really attracted me.
more than anything else. And there's a lot of great people out there that are teaching seminars and stuff. But like I said earlier, when you see a professional athlete versus somebody who's even just very good, there's a gap. There's a gap. And I just wanted to find out what got them there. And I think even though I may not have been able to apply it at the level that they did,
I at least knew what was going on inside their head, or at least I think I do.
Andrew Adams (47:53.722)
you
Andrew Adams (47:57.585)
And what's your training like now? It's 2025. You've got this huge, vast history of training with a number of different people. You mentioned continuing to still train and workout with Bill Wallace. What's your training like today?
Neil Prime (47:58.702)
I
Neil Prime (48:12.398)
Well, I still train a couple of times a week in my own club. I've been running a club. I actually started it in, uh, was it 1987 somewhere around there? I don't talk in years anymore. I'll give you the year and then people can do the math. Uh, but, uh, I mentioned earlier that says since you should, Danny had started teaching his organization. So when I actually opened my club, I was a Brown belt. I asked, called him, asked him permission and he said, absolutely no problem. I did get graded the next year.
But anyway, today I'm still working out a couple of times a week. Love it when I'm preparing people for ranks. Most of my black belts that help me teach are, I've basically given them the go ahead, they're in charge of all of the cue belts, all the color belts. But I still work closely with the black belts, and not that I don't work with them, but it's their responsibility to get them graded.
I love preparing for a grading because that keeps me sharp on all of my forms. And when we're coming up to a tournament, like next week we have a tournament. So Thursday night, you know, we brought out the gloves and we spent extra time sparring. And I just stood in the middle and let everybody else coach the student on the outside. I just said, I'm going to fight them. You guys tell them how to beat me. So, you know, I love working that work and stuff like that.
We have a Shintani Superfoot School, we call it. It's very, very unique in the fact that we train virtually. So my dojo in my garage has got all set up and I have a PC out there. And every Friday night, we do an hour of Superfoot techniques. So we've all got our bags out there and...
It's not a huge group. There's about a dozen of us. We just get online and a couple of us rotate. I try to keep everybody adapting and understanding again, it's like when we're fighting super foot system, we're fighting in the side stance and we're working the boxing techniques and people have really, really adapted to the fact that a punch with a glove is very different than a punch without a glove.
Neil Prime (50:32.972)
Right, so working the differences there. We have a number of people in the Shantani organization that are also graded under Mr. Wallace in the Superfoot system. So that's something that I'm proud to say that I kind of pushed. I'm not looking for a pat on the back. I'm just saying that what I'm doing seems to be working and people like the same thing as me, so it makes it easy. So I still do that. I do get out on Wednesday nights once in a while, not as much as I was.
During COVID, I was working out with Mr. Wallace every single week online. And again, you know, I mentioned the Zoom before. I mean, that was a lifesaver. We couldn't go anywhere. you know, getting the opportunities to work out with him online was incredible. So we just, we just kept it going. I'm looking at retiring coming up and somebody, when I say retiring, I have a day job. Everything that I've done, it's all been on the side. It's all nonprofits.
And they said, well, what are you going to do? I'm going to do more karate. I'm not going to sit around and, you know, nobody's going to have to dust me off. They're going to have to roll me away. Right. It's just, uh, that's what I plan on doing a couple of years ago. I blew out my right shoulder. So I thought, well, I know I'm out for a minimum of six months. What can I do? So I thought, well, I've let my flexibility go a little bit. So I'm going to work on that and I'm, back and maintaining my flexibility almost.
almost to the point where I was in my early twenties, a couple of inches away from doing a full side split. So, you know, I'm working, it hurt at first, boy, let me tell you, but, you know, I had to have a goal. couldn't just sit around and wait for this thing to heal. So, that's what I was doing. And, and, you know, before we had, our workouts, I would go on and say, if anybody wants to come on a half an hour early online, we'll go through our stretching routine and stuff like that. So I've always had to, you know,
I had to keep busy that way so it's easy. I I'm not going to stop until my body stops.
Andrew Adams (52:39.121)
if anyone listening wants to get ahold of you, is there a way that they can reach out and connect and learn more about anything that you're doing?
Neil Prime (52:48.822)
Absolutely, I'm I am on Facebook. It's the only form of social media that I use I'm not a big social media fan But I I use it for the simple fact that I can connect with a lot of people that have the same interest as me so under Neil prime search look me up or St. Catherine's Watto Kai karate is my Facebook page for my club and I do have
WadoKaiKarate.com being in the computer industry way back when before a lot of people were. I jumped on that name. So I've had that name for a long, long time. So yeah, anybody reach out for sure. I love having conversations about martial arts with other people. I put my schedule up when we're going to seminars and stuff like that.
Still go to some of the biggest ones. There's a huge one, Action Martial Arts out in Atlantic City every January. Since we started going back when they had the first memorial after Joe Lewis passed away, we went down there because we know that they were going to have some things set at the dinner. I've been there virtually every year since, other than the COVID year. So, yeah.
Please reach out. I'd love to have a chat.
Andrew Adams (54:21.393)
And just a second, I'm going to throw it back to you to close us out, but I want to make sure to let our audience know again, whistlekick.com for everything that we do whistlekick martial arts radio.com for this podcast and everything else that we do. Um, I failed to mention at the beginning as well, that you can help support the show by joining our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash whistle kick, um, for as little as $5 a month, you can help make this podcast happen, which is if you do the math is like.
Neil Prime (54:22.606)
you.
Andrew Adams (54:50.161)
40, 50 cents per episode. But we would greatly appreciate that. And again, thank you to Kotaro for sponsoring this episode. Their autism awareness belts are available now. Using the code WK10, you can save yourself 10 % off that order. And again, 50 % of the profits from that belt are being donated to the International Society for Autism Research.
So Sensei Prime, thank you so much for being here. How do you want to close this out today? What do you want to leave the audience with as we finish up?
Neil Prime (55:24.738)
Well, if you're going to get good at anything, regardless of your sport, obviously you have to put in the work. But just as important, if not more important, have an open mind and have fun doing it. Once the fun's gone, you're going to be looking for something else. So keep it light.