Episode 1113 - Memories of Dojunim Ji Han Jae: Sin Moo Hapkido Founder
In this episode, Jeremy sits down with Larry Dorsey and Geoff Booth, two students of the late Dojunim Ji Han Jae, founder of Sin Moo Hapkido, about his life and their experiences with him.
Memories of Dojunim Ji Han Jae: Sin Moo Hapkido Founder - Episode 1113
SUMMARY
In this episode, host Jeremy Lesniak chats with Larry Dorsey and Geoff Booth as they reflect on the life and legacy of Ji Han Jae, a legendary figure in the world of Hapkido. They share personal anecdotes and experiences that highlight Ji Han Jae's impact on their lives and the martial arts community. This conversation delves into the life and teachings of a legendary martial arts master, exploring his unique approach to training, his fearless personality, and the profound impact he had on his students. The speakers share personal anecdotes that highlight the master’s wisdom, humor, and the deep respect he commanded. The discussion also touches on the philosophy behind his training methods, the rules he set for his students, and the legacy he left behind as a pioneer in martial arts. The speakers share personal anecdotes, lessons learned, and the values instilled by their mentor, emphasizing the importance of kindness, respect, and the continuous pursuit of knowledge in martial arts. They discuss the challenges of preserving his legacy and the responsibility of the next generation to carry forward his teachings.
TAKEAWAYS
Respect for instructors is crucial in martial arts training.
The martial arts community is built on shared experiences and stories.
Capturing the stories of martial artists is essential for preserving history.
It's their personality that makes instructors beloved.
He was the last of the living founders of any traditional martial art.
He never kept a dime; he was always looking after other people.
He would crack jokes while breaking you into little pieces.
He expected perfection from his students.
His training rules were unique and deeply philosophical.
He lived a simple life, focused on teaching and passing on knowledge.
Meditation was a crucial practice for him for self-discipline.
The mentor's spirit and teachings live on through his students.
Training six days a week was a fundamental rule.
Sharing knowledge freely is essential for growth.
The mentor's influence extended globally, spreading Hapkido.
The next generation must honor and protect the legacy.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background
01:07 Remembering Ji Han Jae
03:57 Personal Stories and Experiences
04:44 The Impact of Ji Han Jae
06:05 Legacy and Influence
07:08 First Encounters: Meeting the Master
08:21 Driving with Fearlessness
10:48 The Unyielding Spirit of a Teacher
12:06 From Korea to America: A Journey of Resilience
14:59 The Legacy of a Martial Arts Pioneer
16:32 A Generous Heart: The Man Behind the Legend
28:52 The Wisdom of a Master: Insights and Anecdotes
22:50 Expectations of Perfection
25:30 Rules of Training: A Unique Philosophy
28:06 The Humor in Training
30:46 Enduring Legacy: The Master’s Influence
34:19 A Simple Life: Lessons from a Great Teacher
38:19 Reflections on a Mentor's Wisdom
40:08 The Unyielding Spirit of a Teacher
43:24 The Legacy of a Martial Arts Pioneer
53:30 Carrying the Torch: The Next Generation
59:45 The Essence of True Martial Arts
01:05:02 A Call for Kindness and Humanity
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy Lesniak (22:07.899)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Whistlekick martial arts radio. And on today's episode, we're doing something we haven't done in a long time. We're doing a bit of a retrospective on the late Dojinim Jihan Jae, who passed away recently, an absolute legend in the world of Hop Kido. And to do that, I am joined by two guests, Larry Dorsey and Jeff Booth. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. I'm gonna...
Throw it to you. You guys are doing the heavy lifting today because I wasn't fortunate enough to know this man. But to all of you out there, if you're new to the show, please check out whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com. It's where we put all the stuff. You know, this episode gets a transcript. And if we talk about things, we'll we'll link them in the show notes, photos and videos. We're working on collecting some of those. So the best place to find all that stuff is at the website whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com. do two episodes a week. All.
And with that, gentlemen, Larry, Jeff, thank you for being on Martial Arts Radio.
Doju Larry Dorsey (23:12.277)
Thank you
Geoff Booth (23:12.455)
Thanks.
Jeremy Lesniak (23:15.207)
Now, I might be a little unpolished with this sort of show format. We used to do some more stuff like this, but it's been a little while since we've done an episode where we talk about someone who isn't here. But what I would like to do, because I think it matters, I'd like each of you to just kind of talk about, just for a minute or two, who you are and how you knew Ji Han Jae.
Doju Larry Dorsey (23:45.729)
you want to go first? Yeah.
Geoff Booth (23:48.538)
You can stop there.
Doju Larry Dorsey (23:50.183)
Okay. My name is like previously said is Larry Dorsey and I met, we brought him over from Korea. That is Meryl Jung and the Northern California Hapkido Association. We brought him over to San Francisco in 1984 and we were training out of the Embarcadero YMCA and when he arrived from the airport, he came directly to the Embarcadero.
lined us all up and walked through and looked at each other, everybody, and he stopped in front of me. And I had just finished my career as a professional football player. And he looked me up and down and kind of went smirked. And I thought to myself, you little, I'll roll you up like a tootsie pop. And he walked on past me and he grabbed the
biggest guy we had about 6'6 280 and this guy screamed like I've never heard a scream and then Merrill Master Jung was laughing because and but Do Jin Im thought he was laughing at him and he hit him with a finger right in the chest put him on the floor as if he was having an epileptic fit and then rubbed his chest counterclockwise
and Merrill came out of it and stood up. The next day when Doja Nim came by me, I was shaking like a leaf. I said, no, you're all good with me. And so I've always told that story that I'm not afraid of any man, but that guy. And even into his 80s. My goodness, Doja Nim, I never wanted.
Jeremy Lesniak (25:29.519)
Yeah
Jeremy Lesniak (25:39.323)
What an introduction.
Doju Larry Dorsey (25:46.238)
to disrespect him or get on his bad side because he was still formidable at the early 80s. That's my introduction to him.
Jeremy Lesniak (25:56.551)
That's quite a story. And just for contrast, if you were a pro football player, I imagine you weren't a small man at that time.
Geoff Booth (25:59.476)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (25:59.912)
Hehehehehe
Doju Larry Dorsey (26:11.914)
Well, no, I was very, very strong. I was probably at my best at six feet, about 185. But I would, you know, bench press in three, 400 pounds squat and five. So but man, let me tell you, I've never seen this. I've never let me put it in context. I've never seen a human being and I've seen great athletes. I've never seen a human being do the things that Dojin M. Ji-Han Jae could do.
Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak (26:44.039)
Okay, and we'll come back to what that means in a moment. Jeff, what was your introduction?
Geoff Booth (26:45.682)
Thank
Geoff Booth (26:51.496)
I started with a Hapkido instructor in Australia who was part of the Korean Hapkido Association which was under one of Doj and his students and he stopped teaching and I had to travel to find a new teacher and at that stage there was no real internet so I ended up in California at an instructor school there and he said to me what are you looking for and I said well I'm looking for a new master and he said that job's been done and being the smart ass that I am.
I said, well, I better upgrade. I'm looking for a Grandmaster. And he said, well, you're lucky he's here near San Francisco. And I was like, really? And we all knew who Dojani was. I mean, he was Grandmaster G then, but we knew who he was. We just didn't know where he was. And I was on a plane the next day. He picked me up. He's got to be one of the worst drivers in the universe.
Doju Larry Dorsey (27:43.528)
Geoff Booth (27:46.604)
And I've never been beaten to a pulp so easily. you know, I was thinking I'm this expert, hap-kiddo black belt. And, you know, he just whipped me for four days. It was the best time of my life. And I returned, you know, a month later with 11 of my students and we flew him to Australia not long after. But as Larry said, I mean,
Doju Larry Dorsey (28:05.276)
you
Geoff Booth (28:14.978)
His ability to inspire agony in a human body is second to none. And, you know, he takes you to the depth of pain that you just think he's broken it, he's torn it, he's destroyed it. As soon as you let's go, you're like, I'm actually okay. And he does that every time. It's, it's very sublime, the pain truly.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:40.419)
Jeff I want I want to go back to something you said because I think you know when I when I I think about the the wonderful people that I've had the chance to talk to and to train with in the stories that I've heard there's a There's another quality beyond the training that makes these people beloved to us and it's it's who they are right? It's it's their personality and you said something that the audience might have missed if I heard you correctly
Geoff Booth (28:50.93)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:08.613)
This man who did not know you at the time, had not met you, picked you up? Your first physical introduction to him was him picking you up?
Geoff Booth (29:18.664)
It was a very weird situation because I was with this teacher and he says, look, I'll just call him on the phone. And I'm like, you can call him. It's like a fanboy moment. Like you can call the founder of Appkido and he goes here, talk to him. And I'm like, what? And he's like, okay, you come train now. And I'm in LA and he's like, you come train now. Okay. And I said,
yes, sir. And I'm like, how do I get there? And I called him with the flight details. He picked me up. had this he had the national lampoon station wagon with the wood edgy. Yeah, and covered in dense. And I mean, we're driving around the edge of Monterey Golf Course, and there's the drop off the ocean. And he's like this and looking at me and I'm like,
Jeremy Lesniak (29:46.737)
Hope you
Doju Larry Dorsey (29:59.487)
Ha
Geoff Booth (30:14.664)
I'm gonna die in a flaming wreckage with the founder of Habkido, but at least I met him.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:21.415)
Larry told us his introduction was in 84. What year was this?
Geoff Booth (30:26.204)
This was 94, so I'm a little bit later on the scene.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:30.791)
Larry, as soon as Jeff mentioned Grandmaster G's driving, you laughed. So you've experienced this too.
Doju Larry Dorsey (30:35.849)
my goodness.
I, you know, when we were up taking care of him in his last days, a few people were there and I said, what do you guys think Dojin left you? You know, what part of him do you think he left to you personally? And there's a guy there, Grandmaster Fashad, he can't drive either. I said, he left you that. Because, my goodness. I'll tell you a quick story. We're in New Jersey.
driving and he's talking and driving and I promise you a semi truck was this close I could have reached out and touched it and I grabbed the steering wheel and tried to turn it goes no it's okay it's okay I said no and I said this is I hated getting in the car with him and but he never you know he had his accidents but never with me and but boy did he get my heart racing that's for sure
Who's something else with that?
Jeremy Lesniak (31:43.751)
Was he focused elsewhere? Was it that?
Geoff Booth (31:49.295)
Bye.
Doju Larry Dorsey (31:50.122)
I don't know, I think it might have been, I don't wanna say cultural because I went to Seoul and they kinda drive a little nutty there too. But he never changed. 40 years he drove the same way and the last part of his life he drove into a ditch. And so, yeah. every time you visit him, he would say, we go eat. And I'd say, yeah, come on, get in my car.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:56.807)
Hmm.
Geoff Booth (32:02.696)
Thanks.
Geoff Booth (32:09.512)
See you
Doju Larry Dorsey (32:18.791)
He said, no, I drive. said, man, no. But we got there and we're here with you.
Jeremy Lesniak (32:21.541)
You tried though, you tried.
Geoff Booth (32:23.24)
Thank
He didn't want to be a passenger. He wanted to drive. I always found he was always talking at you. And it would be like this. And you're like, the road's there. There was zero fear. Like zero fear he was going to die in a wreckage. Everyone else in the car was, but not him. No?
Jeremy Lesniak (32:33.903)
Hmm
Doju Larry Dorsey (32:34.483)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (32:43.345)
Well.
Doju Larry Dorsey (32:45.157)
Yeah, yeah, amazing.
Jeremy Lesniak (32:48.135)
Was that part of his personality, that lack of fear? Did that extend beyond driving and training?
Geoff Booth (32:54.12)
he had zero fear about anything. And a belief that, I don't have to believe that you could do anything he told you to do. So if he didn't like someone, he would say, you go and fix them. And if the police come, you tell them, dodge and him said, okay. You're like, okay.
Doju Larry Dorsey (33:21.129)
Yeah, it was fearless in everything. He had no. He had a filter, but like I say, if like Jeff was saying, if he if he didn't, if something rubbed him wrong, he was going to speak on it and then say, what are you going to do about it? And of course, nobody was going to do anything about it. You know, so that's the way that went. You know, luckily, I never crossed those boundaries, you know.
Geoff Booth (33:23.267)
And
Jeremy Lesniak (33:49.649)
Yeah. Yeah.
Maybe, we're, we're spending, we're spending time. I'm going to ask some questions that you may or may not be able to answer the two of you, but what brought him to the States?
Doju Larry Dorsey (34:06.218)
Well, a few things brought him to the States. You know, he was a trainer, the presidential South Korean presidential bodyguards. And of course, the president got assassinated and that blew that whole thing up. And then he got the way I see politics in South Korea is they got to do something. And so
Geoff Booth (34:06.968)
yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (34:35.815)
They put him in prison for a year on some kind of fraud charges or something, but it was, I believe, directly related to the assassination. And then from there, he went to Germany with my master, Ziegler. And like I say, from there, from there, we brought him to Northern California. And and that's how, if I'm answering your question correctly, that's how it started. And they he wanted to start a new
martial art because when he was in prison he said they wouldn't let him train of course so he meditated a lot and when he got out he said his techniques were a hundred times better so he wanted to make a martial art that focused on meditation as a big part of it so Merrill Jong and Mr. Ko Korean kid
Geoff Booth (35:32.264)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (35:33.737)
Mr. Ko was a restaurant owner who was Korean and they got together and they came up with the name Shinmu which means higher mind and that was it that started Shinmu Hapkido and a lot of people don't know that but that's okay. I'm here to tell you that that's how that name came about and it spread all over the world now of course.
Geoff Booth (35:59.892)
And I think we're using a name of a person who does hapkido, but I think to the average person, they're not sort of aware of truly who this gentleman was. mean, he founded hapkido. There's a lot of debate on that, like any martial art, but he was basically the founder of the art of hapkido. He taught a lot of people in Korea. He went through the prison issue and then the name changed and the style changed when he left Korea.
But he also ended up in Hong Kong for a period of time. He was in a few Hong Kong movies, most noticeably Game of Death with Bruce Lee. His students taught people like Jackie Chan. His resume reads like something out of a science fiction movie. mean, it wasn't just the bodyguards of Korea he taught. I mean, he has a medal of respect from the president of the US. I mean, he taught the Secret Service.
Doju Larry Dorsey (36:56.562)
Salute.
Geoff Booth (36:58.632)
His resume is second to none. And then the other thing that I think a lot of people don't realize is he was the last of the living founders of any traditional martial art. So if you name a martial art, a traditional martial art of any sort today, they're all gone. And even modern styles like Krav Maga, BJJ, the founders are gone. He was the last living founder. I mean, it's a...
Doju Larry Dorsey (37:22.217)
That's a great point. I never thought of it that way. That's a great point. And he was so unassuming. You know, and but his resume, like Jeff saying, oh, my goodness, you can go down. You can go down the line like Jackie Chan. A lot of people don't know that he does. Hapkido eighth degree, I think Bruce Lee taught Nixon's the CIA, all these people and Sam Oh Hong. Is that how he says, you know?
Jeremy Lesniak (37:24.967)
It's.
Geoff Booth (37:43.144)
Yeah.
Geoff Booth (37:50.364)
Yeah, yeah, same hope.
Doju Larry Dorsey (37:52.329)
Yeah. And so, uh, but he was so unassuming. I always just like to watch his shoes. His old beat up brown shoes he used to wear, but he'd wear a suit and I almost put on a suit in his honor today, but it's hot as H and I'd look at his shoes. Everything else was put together, but his shoe and I'd go to it. know, I buy you some shoes. He goes, no problem. No problem. I said, wow, but uh, just an amazing man. Total.
Jeremy Lesniak (37:56.423)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:05.607)
Doju Larry Dorsey (38:22.962)
total respect. Like I say, I've met a lot of people, but he, him.
Number one.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:32.161)
How did he treat the people around him?
Geoff Booth (38:36.808)
Okay, so this was a fault of his, I think, is that he had holes in his hands. So he would come to Australia and he would run seminars and we would give him a whole bunch of cash. And then that night he would want to pay for dinner for everyone. And you're like, take it home, man, keep some of the money. He never kept the dime. He would give it away, he would spend it on friends, he would send it to family members.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:45.511)
Hmm.
Geoff Booth (39:05.84)
He had nothing. mean, he just literally, he was always looking after other people. That was his mindset. It was just incredible. On the mats, mean, unbelievable. But off the mats, a of chaos.
Doju Larry Dorsey (39:23.272)
Yeah. And if he liked you, but you did something that he didn't like, he would be angry at you for a while. And then the next week or two, I could name some people, but I'm not going to that he ex communicated from the organization. then the. Wow, what are you doing, Jeff? And then and then the next month you're going. So this guy is OK.
It's OK. And so, you know, he is easy to forgive. OK, then if he, you know, but he was human, but he was otherworldly to. I'll tell you a quick story about otherworldly before Obama became president. We had a seminar here in Foster City, California, and he brought me to the room and he said, Darcy, like man time. And I said, what are you talking about? He said,
Next president, black man. said, man, are you out of your mind? I said, no way. And Obama became president about four years later. He also got the Ebola thing. You know, there are nine rules and let me tell you, he he he could see you if you know what I'm saying. It was almost like psychic, you know, so you never should lie to him. You know.
You couldn't lie to him, but he would keep it to himself if you lied to him. You know, he'd be looking at the guy like this. And then when the guy left, he goes, I said, wow.
Geoff Booth (41:07.048)
And he never talked badly about people. if he would say, this man is my student, this man's not my student, he's a hap-kiddo man, he's not a hap-kiddo man. But I never heard him talk badly. There were people that, ah, he's bad man, but that's because he's having a moment of disagreement with someone. He never talked people down. He never talked badly. And one of the things I...
Doju Larry Dorsey (41:28.134)
Yes.
Geoff Booth (41:36.474)
I really liked is he, he would crack jokes. I mean, whilst in the midst of breaking you into little pieces and making you do some of the craziest stuff you can think about, he would be cracking a joke. And you just like, the first time he did that, I looked at him like we were doing this weird kick, but we had to do a jump kick and then grab a pole while we were doing the jump kick. And one of my black belts did it all in one move and he stopped and he goes, Hey, what do you think this is Chinese circus? And we're all trying.
And he looks at us and we're like, can he get killed? And he goes, it's okay, chalk. We were like, things are nothing to us, no. But yeah, he used to have a laugh and he was childish. So he would play games with the kids up until the end. mean, was young at heart, there was no doubt. And his physical skills, incredible.
Doju Larry Dorsey (42:14.483)
Yeah.
Geoff Booth (42:36.548)
Unbelievable.
Doju Larry Dorsey (42:38.088)
Yes, they were a quick story about him that I often I went somewhere and we had a little tournament in house and I didn't get my low spin kick right and I was 28, 27. I went outside and I'm crying basically. Now I'm putting my shoes on. I'm outside crying as I'm mad at myself and he walked outside lit a cigarette. used to smoke and then he quit, which is great.
and he lit a cigarette and he goes your butt's too high and I looked because everybody said he don't speak English but he perfect English and and I almost broke my neck looking at him I said and so that was our little secret if he didn't want to talk to you no English no English I my English betty back but when he wanted to tell you something
Jeremy Lesniak (43:28.741)
Hahaha!
Geoff Booth (43:32.338)
Nice.
Doju Larry Dorsey (43:34.874)
His English is very good. he was a how can I say he was a man of many, many things and many talents. Yeah, he was.
Jeremy Lesniak (43:47.729)
What did he expect? Go ahead, Jeff.
Geoff Booth (43:50.379)
The smoking thing was a thing in the early days. You'd be doing a seminar, he's like, I go outside for fresh air, and he would have a cigarette. I use a story I share with my students of my Miyagi moment. We had taken him into the Blue Mountains of Sydney for some sightseeing, and I turn around and he's crouched down on the side of the curb, and I'm like, okay. I walk back and I say, can I help you? goes, oh, look.
snail and I'm thinking okay, okay, so yes and he gets his lighter out and he goes people say snail slow and he lights up the lighter and moves it near the snail and the snail goes and he goes sometimes fast and gets up and goes down the hill and I'm like did that happen?
Doju Larry Dorsey (44:17.434)
you
Jeremy Lesniak (44:32.113)
Ha ha ha!
Doju Larry Dorsey (44:35.697)
Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (44:40.387)
Yeah
Jeremy Lesniak (44:47.313)
What did he expect of his students?
Geoff Booth (44:50.866)
Perfection.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:52.231)
perfection.
Doju Larry Dorsey (44:53.895)
Absolutely. And he let me tell you, he has nine rules that he put in there. And I followed them religiously. OK. And one time I had a friend of mine come from L.A. Invite me to I was teaching at his school and I said friend came from L.A. I'm going to go to dinner. I'll be right back in about a half an hour. Went out, had a near beer or zero
alcohol beer came back but the smell smelled like beer and he went ballistic you get out you out and i said don't you know what he no you drink no drinking and i said it's it's non-alcoholic and he goes oh okay but if it had have been alcoholic my career would have been over
Jeremy Lesniak (45:51.399)
That was one of the one of the rules something about the way you approach your training.
Doju Larry Dorsey (45:54.406)
That is one of the rules. Yeah, no alcohol, no scaleless fish. Bad for the liver, no pork, bad for the heart, no chicken, bad for the lungs, no hot or cold water on the molars, because that's how you generate the adrenaline from your general gland. Don't be too happy because that's like a sugar high. Don't be too sad. It'll draw your face in.
And don't be too angry. It changes your blood, your heart and can kill you. And so, yeah, and and believe in. Then it went a little further as time went on. One hour TV. Because of what they make the TVs out of now, one hour computer, same thing. So it got deep and he expected you to follow it now.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:30.039)
interesting collection of rules.
Doju Larry Dorsey (46:53.799)
How hard is it? I always tell this joke. I said, have you ever seen a black man not eat chicken? And so I was like, God, you're going to take that away from me? So yeah. And bake it. Yeah. Oh, boy. I'll just segue and then you take it over. He always said no pork. Right. But I found that these kind of people, these icons, these
Geoff Booth (47:05.864)
Bacon? Come on, bacon!
Doju Larry Dorsey (47:22.585)
otherworldly type people sometimes don't follow their own rules that they set forth. Jeff, you can take over now,
Geoff Booth (47:30.02)
You put me in the deep end. I used to confuse him with the whole when he was in Australia because he studied a lot of religious texts and a lot of history. And some of the rules like the pork come from out of, know, like Jewish religion, Muslim religion, because it was a relatively unclean meat. So there's a lot of historical influence on where his rules came from.
Doju Larry Dorsey (47:31.719)
Hahaha!
Geoff Booth (47:55.868)
So for example, when you do kicks, spinning kicks are only done in one direction. And this is about Joshua and the horn and blowing the walls down. One direction is for healing and one direction is for destruction. So we only kick in one circle. So he came to my school on one of the first trips and we kicked both ways. And he's got one of my students kicking the wrong way and he's lost it. what are you doing? And I'm like, sir, you're in Australia. No, no, this is wrong. I said, everything in Australia goes the other way.
Really? We had to walk him into the toilet and flush one of the toilets. He's like, and he bought it for about a moment. I mean, it didn't didn't last. But we had to try and confuse him at times because it was like, this is different in this country because Australia is in the southern hemisphere. He didn't buy it, but we tried.
Doju Larry Dorsey (48:49.901)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:50.235)
Did he appreciate it? Did... Okay, it sounds like he...
Geoff Booth (48:52.488)
He would laugh. He would laugh at this sort of stuff. But even when he was angry, he didn't stay angry. you didn't know whether he was very angry or just slightly angry, but he would switch. So it'd be like, no, he'd be like, oh, but then he'd be back to having fun. And you're like, okay, I guess he wasn't really angry. So when he taught it was the technique was no.
Okay. There was nothing else. And you could do the same thing five times. And then the third one would be the fifth one would be okay. And you're thinking I didn't change anything. Like, I don't know why that one's okay. But he would, he would stand there with a stick. You do jumping. You not do one. I said, no, you not do two. You not do three.
Doju Larry Dorsey (49:27.153)
Totally wrong. That's what he would say. Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (49:39.815)
Yeah, totally wrong.
Geoff Booth (49:54.098)
And you're like, he's got white belts doing flying kicks because they're thinking he's going to kill them with a stick.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:59.057)
Yeah
Doju Larry Dorsey (50:00.091)
Yeah.
Geoff Booth (50:02.002)
Very inspirational.
But he had a bunch of sayings which were always just hilarious. mean, one of my favorites was, this one, 100 % kill. And you're like, what's a 90 % kill? But.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:06.567)
W-w-w-w-w-
please.
Geoff Booth (50:23.346)
But that was one, this one 100 % kill. This technique, okay, you do it for friend. You're like, you do this one on your friend, this one you don't do on your friend. And you're like, okay, I guess it's not 100 % kill. But we had him down for 10 days. He would have been in his early 60s. And we did 10 days, nine to nine. Everyone was shattered. And at the end of it,
We had a little window of time left and somebody said, what do you, what do want to do? And somebody said, sparring. Now it's not really a happy thing. So he's like, Hmm. You'll punch. I do punch defense. You'll kick. I do kick defense. You'll grab me. How are you sparring? Now, when you think about it, he's true. Right. But he goes, okay, we do sparring and we're all thinking, this won't end well.
So he looks at the group and he goes, okay, who your best fighter? And I reckon everyone but crawled backwards to get out of the way. And one, one guy was not fast enough. goes, okay, you now he happened to be a fifth degree in Taekwondo, third degree in Hapkido, state champion in Taekwondo. So this, this guy could fight and he lines up facing Dojo Nima. Dojo was like, okay, we fighting. And this student's. Crapping his pants, right?
Jeremy Lesniak (51:25.058)
Hahaha!
Doju Larry Dorsey (51:27.238)
you
Geoff Booth (51:47.356)
And the very first thing he does is a forward roll, grabs his pant leg and does a somersault kick and hits him on the shoulder and knocks him to the ground. And we're like, what just happened? So he jumps up and he goes, it's okay. I not kill him. Now Chris is on the ground. Like, he goes, I hit here. He not my friend.
Doju Larry Dorsey (51:56.902)
Woof! Woof! Woof! Woof!
Doju Larry Dorsey (52:12.208)
Woof!
Geoff Booth (52:17.34)
What I had a percent kid and we're just going, you're like 65 and the first thing you do is a summer sock kick. And that was sparring where I like, okay, maybe we don't need to do more of that. But he, he was still demonstrating. For as long as I knew him. I mean, he never stopped doing stuff. And we, we've got that kick on.
We got the kick on video.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:48.487)
would love to see that, would love to put that on the show notes if you have that available.
Geoff Booth (52:51.432)
That might be a challenge. It's on old school cassette. that first trip, we recorded everything he did. So we caught a lot of stuff. But I mean, I only knew him in his late 50s onwards. It would have been incredible to see him in his physical peak. He would have been...
Jeremy Lesniak (52:56.179)
okay.
Doju Larry Dorsey (53:15.344)
Well, once in Mexico, I asked him when did he think he was at his best? And he said about 57. He said, that's when I thought I was at my best. And I spent 27 years as a police officer and everything he taught me I would use to subdue to and he'd teach me one day and the next day.
I'd get into it with somebody and I'd use it. Beautiful. Just outstanding. And so that's a connection I have with him. I was like, you know, saved my bacon many times. Some of the stuff he showed me. And when I first met him, oh wow, when I first came to teach for him, he goes, you fight? said, eh. And he said, we fight. I said, no, bro.
Geoff Booth (53:55.912)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (54:12.007)
I didn't come here to fight. came here to learn because I could just feel, you know, I said, no, I'm good. And then one time he told me to throw him in front of those 10 day seminars. my God. Those are brutal.
Geoff Booth (54:12.739)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:26.216)
Was that a common thing that people would attend to some, you 10 days in a row? And the expectation was that you would participate for 10 straight days.
Geoff Booth (54:28.466)
Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (54:31.301)
Yes.
Geoff Booth (54:31.962)
input, input
Doju Larry Dorsey (54:36.294)
at for 10 hours and and and and I don't I'm not ashamed to say this and I don't care, you know, and I'm not bragging or anything, but I was working the 11 to 7 shift in San Francisco and I would drive two hours to Monterey. We started at nine o'clock. I would end up at 10 finished training, drive back to my job. And I did that three times.
Geoff Booth (54:36.53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (55:04.908)
I went to three or four of those sessions, four 10 hour sessions, four separate times and six days in a row. And then I drive and I'm going like this. And I went and.
Geoff Booth (55:09.788)
Thank
Jeremy Lesniak (55:21.989)
Maybe that was his secret, he wasn't sleeping.
Doju Larry Dorsey (55:25.518)
And I missed Sunday, right? I missed Sunday and I was off Monday and I went there and he goes, Dorsey, where were you? I said, don't you know, man, I slept in six days. He goes, no matter. I waiting you. I said, my God. Yeah, he was brutal. He asked me to throw him one time. He was scary. Believe that. He said, you come through me.
Geoff Booth (55:25.692)
He doesn't- he doesn't sleep.
Doju Larry Dorsey (55:55.224)
I said, okay. And I grabbed him and I tried to throw him and I couldn't. So I said, well, I'm going this way. Why don't I just turn and push him that way? And he whispered in my ear, don't do that. I don't want to hurt you. And I hadn't I hadn't even moved. I said, man, I'm going to leave you alone. I'm sorry, but you're I'm done. Yeah.
Geoff Booth (56:09.306)
You
Jeremy Lesniak (56:09.927)
Hahaha!
Jeremy Lesniak (56:18.311)
I hope this comes across as the compliment, I mean it, but what keeps coming to mind is he sounds like the real life version of Yoda.
Doju Larry Dorsey (56:28.515)
That's what I used to call him. He was something, yeah. He was...
Geoff Booth (56:28.721)
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:30.14)
Really?
Geoff Booth (56:31.314)
Mhmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:34.343)
Because everything you're saying seems to line up pretty. I mean, I don't know how tall he was, but. OK, so Korean height, Korean tall.
Geoff Booth (56:34.408)
Okay.
Not both. Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (56:39.941)
about five, six.
Yeah, yeah, and about 140 pounds.
Geoff Booth (56:45.568)
And he, yeah, there was nothing to him. But when he hit you, it was like being hit with an iron bar. I mean, I tell people it's like, it's like an iron bar wrapped in skin. So you touch him and you think, he's a normal person, but then he would move and you'd be like, no, he's not. And he never, he never stopped inventing. He never stopped creating.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:53.191)
Mm.
Geoff Booth (57:11.176)
Even right at the end, he was always coming up with new techniques, new weaponry. He was playing with new things. Something you just laugh and go, thank God he moved on from that. The long bowler thing, that was a nightmare. he had this idea of this long piece of fabric, like 20 feet long. And then at each end was a ball around this big.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:26.759)
What's this? The what?
Geoff Booth (57:39.592)
you know, baby head size with rocks in it, in a sock and you would tie it up and then you would swing this thing in the figure eight and hit people with it. And you could also throw it up and catch and loop it around things and then use it to climb. you're like, I remember we had to make one for him when he was in Australia, we made it. And then the material was burning our hands because it was so wrong. had to get gloves so we could hold it. And then he had me trying to climb a step with it. I mean,
I'm just so happy he moved on from that. I mean, he moved on to that front to a smaller scarf, which was just a lot easier, but he was always playing around with something new. It was nonstop. It was not like it's done this way. It's like, we do this. I do this. We do this. You're like, okay. And he always changed the requirements. That was probably one of the hardest things as an international is you would do the 10 days and you'd say, okay.
I got the basic eight. Finally, I know the basic eight the way Dojani wants them. And the very next 10 days, he's changed them. And they're like, they're no good anymore. But he was always changing stuff. Non-stop.
Doju Larry Dorsey (58:48.687)
Yeah.
One of the one of the most amazing stories I wasn't there, but I heard about it from many, many people. He was crossing the street and a car was about to hit him and he put his thumb on the car and spun back onto the sidewalk. And I almost want to try that, but not quite. I don't know how he did that, but there's credible witnesses that said that's what happened. I said, wow.
Geoff Booth (59:12.584)
Thank you.
Doju Larry Dorsey (59:21.077)
He constantly amazed me, constantly amazed me. And that was the beauty of him, you know, is so simple, you know, so simple. And he lived simply, you know, they didn't have this big, ordinate house or, or, or all these beautiful cars and everything like that. Very simple man. As he said, chimple, very chimple. And that's where I like to live, you know.
You don't have to, you don't need this or that, you know, you just, just do your thing and try to find out who you are and then pass it on to, I teach strictly kids now. I don't like teaching adults. I really don't like violence. And, you know, in the last meditation he gave me, shocked me because he said, you, want to kill a man.
He said, but you must do this meditation. Then no more. You kill him, you will sully my name. You know, you know, kill. OK. And I said, yes, sir. You know, and he gave me a meditation, you know, and, know, I could, you know, just being real about everything. We had a special relationship because, you know, he'd done prison time. I'd been in
jail when I was nine years old, adult jail and, but they separated me, of course, but you know, we had that, you know, he always said, I recommend jail for everybody because when you go there, everything's real. None of this, nothing. And respect is number one. And, so
You know, we had a synergy. I could look at him. You look at me, you know, and we look at each other and we didn't even have to talk. And. You know, I, you know, I'm almost tearing up now. You know, I love that guy and and everybody say, and I say, hey, man. That was him, you know, that's him and I love him, you know, and it hurt me as he was dying, but he died like a.
Geoff Booth (01:01:36.028)
it.
Geoff Booth (01:01:41.914)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:01:46.999)
as we say on the street like a G. You know, he knew he was dying. He just look at you say this is no big deal, you know, and I took that and I said, that's the way I'm going to go. No big deal. You know, and yeah, that's it.
Geoff Booth (01:02:03.909)
See you.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:05.351)
Wow. I want to go back. Jeff, you made a comment when Larry was talking that Dojima didn't sleep.
Geoff Booth (01:02:17.776)
Yeah, no, he- he slept very minimally.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:20.847)
Okay, what can you quantify that?
Are we talking? What are we talking?
Geoff Booth (01:02:27.016)
Well, it would be like, it would be like, okay, I remember the first 10 days seminar he did in Australia, which I was a zombie. I've never been so physically broken in my life. I mean, partly because it was a combination of the 10 days, but also the fact that every single one of us was trying to impress the man. It's his first trip to Australia. We want to make sure he's right. So we're putting 120 % into everything we did. But we would, we were going from nine to nine. And then we had the rush. One thing he did the man,
He did have one thing that he liked is he had to have a Korean meal every day while he was on the road. And that can be hard where you're based. There was no Korean restaurant in the town where my Dojang is. we had to drive. So we would finish at nine. He never was a big one about getting photos and stuff. So you had to force him to sit down to get a group photo because everyone else wanted the photo. And then we would rush to this Korean restaurant. We would drop him back at the hotel, obviously by midnight, I would say. And then he would be.
sending you a message, you know, at one in the morning, tomorrow, this one, this one. And then he said, you pick me up 530. And you're like, what? And you're thinking, no, because we need time to have breakfast. And we need walking and talking. And I'm like, what? And he just, and he would do that for the 10 days. And at lunch, all the students are sleeping. No one went for lunch. People were sleeping in the dojo.
Geoff Booth (01:03:55.176)
We were on the first floor. You couldn't get up and down the steps because our legs wouldn't work. It was just, he was nonstop. I mean, the last time he came to Australia, it was when his hip was playing up. had a hip replacement, but he walked into the cane and everyone's like, you know, and that heard my stories. A lot of students had never met him. And he's like, hello everyone. And he was excited because there was a whole bunch of students and he's got his cane.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:03:55.566)
I learned that one early. Go to lunch, baby.
Geoff Booth (01:04:24.688)
He walks, he's carrying a little bag and like his shoes, it's a little ratty bag with his with his dough box in it. He goes upstairs, he gets changed, comes downstairs, and everyone's like, you can see a little bit of doubt. What's this old guy going to do? He walks to the side of the doujang, hangs his cane on the weapons rack, turns around and teaches for 10 hours and doesn't want to stop for lunch. And everyone's like,
What just happened? It's like the image of Yoda. When Yoda pulls out the lightsaber and then bounces around the room. You just going, and I said, he's Superman. When he takes the Clark Kent outfit off and the uniforms on, nothing will stop him. Nothing. And you just, you can't keep up with him. You just, and he was like, you hit me. And you're like, this is gonna end badly. You grab me, you try one me. You're like.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:04:56.868)
Thank
Geoff Booth (01:05:24.424)
And students would try and then he would do this, I'm an old man, maybe not working. And you're like, don't touch him. You know, it's a fire. You're going to be burnt. But it was incredible.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:28.898)
Hahaha
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:33.699)
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:05:38.308)
He was the fastest man I've ever seen. Even maybe he died at 89, maybe 84 years old. Wow. His kicks were still fast as H and his hands were so fast, you know, and just an amazing, when he was dying, you know, I lift him up out of his bed and, you know, so he could.
kind of move around a little bit. But he had this strange bone. It wasn't his collarbone. It was a bone that went across his chest like this. At first I thought, is that his collarbone? And then there was a bone that went across below his collarbone. That was the strangest thing I ever saw. And I said, maybe this was what made him so fast. You know, I don't know, but that freaked me out. I'll tell you a funny story.
He was showing us how to get up if your hands are tied behind your back, you're laying on your stomach or you're or you're laying on your back. And this guy, he went like in a circle and was spinning on top of his head and then stood up. I looked at him, I said, man, are you are you out of your mind? How did you do that? And he goes,
You know broke dance, you black guy, you don't know broke dance. said, man, and for years I've been trying to do that and I cannot. I didn't film it, so I don't know how he did it, but he did something on that ground and ended up on top of his head and just spun around like this and then stood up. I said, whoa, bro. Yeah, he was. He did some physical stuff that I that I've never seen anybody do.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:07:15.335)
You
Geoff Booth (01:07:18.429)
Thanks.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:07:36.118)
We just have to run up the wall, which was a big challenge for me.
Geoff Booth (01:07:38.884)
Okay, so the wall in his Dojeng in Monterey was on one side of where the shower area was. What he didn't tell you was the wall went up. He didn't tell there was no roof. So you'd go flying up this wall and there'd be nothing there. You'd be like, And almost go straight over the wall into the tiled area. And he would laugh. The first guy almost died every time.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:08:01.762)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:08:03.129)
Yeah
Geoff Booth (01:08:06.192)
And he would laugh. And then there was a method of getting down the wall, like a special way to come down the wall. And you're just going. then. Correct. And then in that dojang, he had a nail throwing range. So he used to throw nine inch nails and you're like, what are we doing? And he goes, same like chopstick. You throw a chopstick, a hundred percent kill. And you're like, don't give this man any cutlery because he's dangerous as hell.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:08:11.14)
Absolutely.
like Spider-Man.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:08:35.588)
that he knew he knew all of that and plates how to spin them and you know, he was amazing. And I just wonder how far he would have went or gone if President Park hadn't got assassinated, you know, because anytime you have the United States president invite you to teach his people.
Geoff Booth (01:08:37.16)
haha
Geoff Booth (01:08:41.689)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:09:02.98)
You're something special because I know there's big ego in law enforcement. I know when they saw him, they said, what? And when he left, they said, because they got they probably got put someplace they've never been before. Yeah. And I think he had a special coin that the United States had given him. And every time he get in some kind of.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:09:05.499)
pressure.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:09:20.711)
I'd imagine.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:09:31.94)
trouble or something that coin would come in there. Everybody. You're go. You're free to go. I don't know what it's all about. It might be a myth, but I I definitely remember seeing something and he never worried about anything. You know, not one thing. No Woody. No Woody. You know. Yeah.
Geoff Booth (01:09:57.064)
He had this funny thing with gifts. Don't give the man a gift, because he would re-gift literally instantly. And I remember his first trip, we had no idea, his first trip we gave him a hand-carved didgeridoo, which is a musical instrument Aboriginals play. was several thousand dollars. So we've given it to him and we had a person who could play it and they played it and he heard it and he's like, oh, that's good.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:09:57.075)
What? Go ahead.
Geoff Booth (01:10:25.478)
So he gets it and then he's off having a breath of fresh air and you hear, he's trying to play the thing. And this thing takes years to master. And we're like, my God. So all day, whenever he wanted to break, he's trying to play this thing and it's annoying everyone. So I said, you should take this back to your room because it's expensive and know, safety. So he's in the car in the back seat. He's got the didgeridoo up on the headrest and he's scoped up, drive safely.
And I'm like, how old is he? So we take him back, drop him at the hotel. The next morning, he's angry. He walks in, goes, Jeff, did you, he couldn't say it. Did you, broken? And I'm like, it's a tube. How do you, what? And he was out with one of his other students, Young, and he was getting up and trying to play it. And he'd go to the bathroom at 3 a.m. and Young had some socks in it so it wouldn't make a noise.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:10:59.031)
Hahaha
Geoff Booth (01:11:24.072)
So it was just socks in it. So by the end of the week, he's got this thing in the break route and he's like, wow, wow, yeah, yeah. He's playing it. And I'm like, it's a lifetime to master. And he looks at me and he goes, why are you not telling me? Just breathing. This is it, breathing. And I'm like, go figure, it'd be him. And then just for a chuckle at the end.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:11:46.434)
Yeah.
Geoff Booth (01:11:49.862)
He's still got this thing at the airport. Now this is pre-9-11, which is probably a good thing. He's at Sydney International Airport checking in with his didgeridoo in his hand and he stops and he's like up on the shoulder and he's aiming at security guards and going.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:12:06.791)
Whoa. Whoa.
Geoff Booth (01:12:10.344)
I have no idea where that did reduce with, but my God, it was hilarious. We gave him less gifts after that.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:12:19.868)
I'm at the very least gifts that didn't make noise.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:12:21.486)
Yeah, he always gave his gifts away. You I don't know where your dogeroo is. I'd like to find it, though. But if you gave him a gift, he'd give it to somebody else. And I remember Frank Dukes gave him something and he gave it away. But yeah, it's amazing.
Geoff Booth (01:12:42.408)
And he would do it in front of you. So we're at a dinner and this guy from Kazakhstan gives him like a vest with gold and know, fur and it's ornate. He gives it to him and it's obviously very expensive and he's like, thank you, thank you. And the Kazakhstanian sits down. He comes straight back to the table, holding this thing, turns to me and goes, Jeff, for you. And I'm like.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:12:46.508)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:12:46.641)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:13:05.923)
Do you still have it? That's the question.
Geoff Booth (01:13:07.994)
I said, no, no, I said wrong size and I gave it back. I was like, can't give it to me in front of the guy.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:13:13.283)
smart man. Yep, smart man.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:13:17.703)
He sounds like a bit of this warrior monk cliche, right? Talking about the regifting and never holding onto money. It's almost like it was intentional.
Geoff Booth (01:13:18.15)
Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:13:31.435)
He liked his. Yes, absolutely. And he liked his money. Don't mess with his money, but if he gave it, he would spend it. You know, one of a good friend of mine in in. We chat Zweig, we went to Minnesota for seminar and afterwards Dojean said we go casino, Indian casino.
Geoff Booth (01:13:31.672)
He was very spiritual.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:14:01.316)
And so we get there and he goes, Chad, you give me money. So Chad peels off a $50. Don't you look at it? And he goes, there's no money. I crack. Chad was it. Chad was like, don't you have? That's all I got is, you know, but yeah, I liked his money, but don't mess with his money, but he'd give it away to.
You know, he didn't he didn't, you know, hold it like, you know, some miser or anything, you know, but he charged and he charged for what he was worth and sometimes less than what he was worth. And people, a lot of people tried to play that game on him, you know, and that's when they got excommunicated or they were put somewhere that they probably didn't want to ever they'll never recover from. You know what I'm saying? And
And yeah, yeah, that was it.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:15:04.229)
Let's, let's go ahead, Jeff.
Geoff Booth (01:15:04.404)
He would, he, yeah, he would, I mean, he would be promised a seminar and people would, he would fly across the world to go to somewhere and this happened a lot. And he'd turn up, they'd be next to no one there and the expenses would hardly be covered. And he'd go home with nothing. And you're like, that's not respect. And then that happened over and over and over. I mean, that happened a lot.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:15:30.403)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:15:31.867)
We should talk about his legacy, right? I think we've got a pretty good picture. I have a pretty good picture of who this man was. And I imagine that we could find more and more of these stories and go for hours.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:15:44.886)
yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:15:48.859)
But I think...
you know, one of the true measures of someone, especially a martial artist, especially a founder, is the legacy they leave when they pass on. So there are kind of two pieces to this that I'm curious of. What did he want his system to be when he was gone? And what were his thoughts on this next generation that was going to have to carry the torch?
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:16:21.281)
Well, without sounding egotistical or anything like that, you know, I stood by the man for 42 years and then a lot of people, you know, they don't invite me places or they don't, you know, whatever. And it didn't matter to me because his rule was you train six days a week. That was it. That's the rule. You follow the nine rules.
Geoff Booth (01:16:39.368)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:16:51.56)
Okay, you do your meditations. So at the end of his life, he make me doju. lot of people are not happy with that. That's okay. I don't care. He made me doju founder, but it also means gatekeeper of the way, which
Jeremy Lesniak (01:17:04.513)
And what does that term mean?
Geoff Booth (01:17:07.346)
Bounder.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:17:15.54)
It reminds me of the Japanese term doshu. Is that possibly an equivalent? Okay.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:17:18.774)
Mm-hmm.
Geoff Booth (01:17:19.154)
Yeah, that would be room, that would be soon.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:17:23.01)
So that's how I take it, gatekeeper of the way. Okay. And so, you know, when he was dying, I did get invited to Columbia and then I got the phone call that he was in the hospital and they're gonna do brain surgery and all that. And so I canceled my ticket and was flying from San Francisco, Tucson. And I got a call and he said, no, you go.
Geoff Booth (01:17:27.72)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:17:52.318)
My dog. He said.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:17:54.023)
Not you're you're not the first you will not be the last I Love dogs. It's all good
Geoff Booth (01:17:55.24)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:17:57.514)
Okay. Kobe! Kobe!
So I get a phone call about 10 minutes later and he's in the hospital and the guy said, Dojane said you go Columbia. It's too important. And I thought, wow, this guy's dying and he says, go. So I went, you know, that's right. And like I say, the nine rules, I follow them religiously for the last 42 years. You know, I
Geoff Booth (01:18:04.84)
Thank
Jeremy Lesniak (01:18:19.408)
it was about the training.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:18:31.02)
treated him with total, total deference and respect. And I expect one guy said, nobody's gonna follow you. And I said, I don't want followers. I'm trying to protect this man's legacy, okay? Before he died, he wrote three books in Korean, all right? And they were translated into English. Code of Conduct.
Geoff Booth (01:18:31.208)
Thank
Geoff Booth (01:18:35.528)
Thank
Geoff Booth (01:18:40.616)
Thank
Geoff Booth (01:18:55.817)
Thank you.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:18:59.402)
rules and regulations and his special book. Okay. So.
This man here, much respect. He goes all over the world doing what Dojin taught. I saw one of his seminars. was completely amazed. I'm serious. You know, he walks out there, you know, and I'm like, what is this? Jeff, come on. And Jeff did something. said, whoa. He goes all over the world. In other words, he embodies no fear.
Geoff Booth (01:19:19.464)
Thank you.
Geoff Booth (01:19:24.752)
Thank you.
Geoff Booth (01:19:33.8)
So.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:19:37.378)
Because when you go all over the world, there are people that want to find out what you're all about. And this man goes everywhere and he shows them what it's all about. And you can take your podcasts as evidence of that. Here we are, you know, and we're here to tell you that we're here to keep his legacy. And there are several other people around the world that will not
Geoff Booth (01:19:57.18)
Thanks.
Well.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:20:06.455)
vary or scurry away from the responsibility of keeping his legacy. And his legacy is one of this, to become a total human being, physically, mentally, spiritually. And he said, three is one, one is three. When you understand that, you know my martial art.
Geoff Booth (01:20:07.708)
Thank
Geoff Booth (01:20:32.364)
And it's a hard thing because he never really managed to build a real organization. There's a number of people that follow his way, some people more than others.
But there was no real organization, so there was no real structure. And even if he said, you know, I'm choosing this person to be next, half the people didn't believe it or didn't want to agree. And there was a little bit of politics. But sadly, there wasn't really a clear future for his style. But people get a little lost there. And I think people need to think.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:21:03.719)
and
Geoff Booth (01:21:16.41)
rewind a little bit. There's millions of Hapkido practitioners, whether or not they're teaching Shinmu, which is the current iteration, or whether or not they're doing Hapkido, they're still following his way. And there are millions of Hapkido practitioners. So his legacy is the fact that today there's somebody training Hapkido and there's millions of these people and it's because of him. And, you know, as Larry said, I do a lot of traveling, but
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:21:32.019)
Right.
Geoff Booth (01:21:45.916)
You know, I have the honor to promote someone to Black Belt and I know that that's part of his legacy. And that's what we have to do. We have to stay true to his art and we have to make sure that his art lives on and it will. I mean, it's too big. Hapkido is a mainstream martial arts. It's a small art. It's practiced in almost every single country and there's millions of people that do it.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:22:09.595)
Mm-hmm.
Geoff Booth (01:22:13.532)
worldwide known for what it is. And that's his legacy. You know, it's just.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:22:17.226)
That is his legacy. He if you read some of the stuff that is out there, sometimes it says he's the one that spread the Hup Keto all over the world. then he man, he would get on an airplane and he traveled and he traveled and he traveled and he traveled and he's spreading Hup Keto and.
Geoff Booth (01:22:23.624)
Alright.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:22:42.265)
Why was that important to him?
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:22:45.269)
Well, like I say, when you come from the mud, right, he was not a educated man. I think he had a ninth grade education. And by the way, he did write a structure. Like I say, the three books he wrote during COVID, but nobody wanted him. We offered him. We said, hey,
This is what Dojin wants. This is a structure. This is this and nobody wanted him and I thought that was a shame but your question is
He came from a poor background. OK, and he fought in the streets and he climbed all the way up to the presidential palace. I like to say, been around princes and paupers, you know, and he never, you know, and then he went to jail prison. You can't do more than that in life, right? You can't go from being in the presidential palace to the lowest you can be is to.
you know, prison. So he had this real. You know thing about him, you know, and I like to tell people real recognize real, you know what I mean? And so when you're real, you're not afraid of nothing and nobody. And that puts you in another category. And that man, he was not afraid of nothing. And he always saw possibilities. You know, you know, I don't know if I can. Yeah, you can do it.
Geoff Booth (01:24:04.264)
Thanks.
Geoff Booth (01:24:20.306)
Thank you.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:24:31.19)
Just go do it. You know?
Geoff Booth (01:24:35.181)
I think when you're that passionate about something, you have to share it. Because his belief in what the style was, was so ultimate, there was no doubt that you have to share it. You have to give it to people and let people see it. And that's what he did. And he did that freely and he did that everywhere. And I think that's a big part of it. It's just like he had something special and he just wanted to make sure everyone else got a taste. And that's what he did.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:25:03.519)
And one of the people that got a taste was Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee said, whoa, and he gave him the gold belt and the gold uniforms signifying the highest level of martial art. And a lot of people, they don't like to hear it, you know, but Doja Dama used to say, Bruce Lee, movie star martial artist, me, I reel.
And a lot of people they didn't want to hear that one and
Jeremy Lesniak (01:25:34.213)
No, we've got a clip.
from a conversation with Bill Wallace talking about Joe Lewis. And it is one of the most viewed YouTube clips we have. And it is essentially saying the same thing and a lot of very unhappy people.
Geoff Booth (01:25:43.577)
Yeah.
Geoff Booth (01:25:57.072)
Yeah, I I interviewed him about Bruce Lee because it's obviously for magazines. It's something that people want to hear. I remember I said to him, what about Bruce? He goes, he good actor. And I said, but what about martial arts fighter? no, no, no. Average, very average. I said, can I print that? He goes, sure, it's the truth. I was like, well, that sums it up.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:25:57.077)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:26:02.001)
Sure.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:26:17.087)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:26:24.295)
I want to be aware of our time and like I said, I know we could go forever. I think we'll have to figure out whether it's having each of you on individually or maybe we do a part B. don't know, we'll, we can talk.
When I interview a guest, I ask them to close the show, but I'm gonna ask each of you to kind of say what Do Jin-in would say. If I asked him, what do you want the audience to come away with today? What do each of you think he would say to the audience?
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:27:02.463)
Well, I'll tell you, when we used to go to seminars after the seminar, he would come up to me and he goes, Dorsey, nothing special? And I'd say, no, nothing special. I thought he was talking about the people at the seminar. know, nobody was outstanding. Then later on, as I reflected, I understand he was just saying, this is nothing special. Nobody's special. Just be a human.
And I think that was his legacy and that's what he would want people to do through martial art, true martial artists. They are kind, know, benevolent. They don't want to hurt anybody. You know, we have that rule, you know, I use my Hokuto to defend myself, my family and my friends. If I should fail this pledge, I'll relinquish my belt and never practice again.
And we take that to heart. And I think that's what he would do. That's what he wanted. Just be just be kind, be a human. OK. And in today's world, we definitely need to bring that in.
Geoff Booth (01:28:15.4)
Yeah, I mean, I remember years ago, he met some Koreans in Australia, or invited other Hapkido instructors to meet him. And he met one and I'm not naming anyone, but he just said, he not Hapkido man. And I was like, okay, so he goes, he not puttobak. So I think it's in simplistic terms, it's like when you stop wearing your uniform, you stop doing Hapkido. He goes, just put your uniform on. And he was all about training. And I think.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:28:15.495)
Just.
Geoff Booth (01:28:45.629)
You know, we do him honor and we do respect by putting our uniform on. And I have a question I ask a lot of people, you know, because I deal with a lot of Habkido people. What did you do for Habkido today? Just put your uniform on. Because you're going to train or you're going to teach or you're going to share. Just put your uniform on. That's how we own our legacy.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:29:07.017)
I love it.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:29:11.686)
And I'll be going up to Tucson, know, and, you know, putting some flowers on his grave and things like that as long as I live. Because when you go and you pay your respects, all kinds of memories come flooding back and all the people that you met like Jeff, you know, he's always been.
Geoff Booth (01:29:12.132)
and I stop now. Thank you.
Geoff Booth (01:29:36.808)
Thank
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:29:38.322)
respectful and kind to me. that, you know, that goes a long way with me. That's number one, you know, you know. And then after that, you know, we can laugh and joke all we want. Right. But so, yeah, I'm going to, you know, as long as I live. In fact, I'd like to be buried next to him, but we'll see how that goes.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:30:03.781)
Well, gentlemen, I want to thank you for being here.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:30:08.032)
We want to thank you because we have a lot to share to the world now that he's gone. And senior students like Grandmaster Booth, know, people like that that have stories that continue to train, continue to spread his word. Those are like gold, right? They're precious.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:30:30.459)
They are, they are. We need to keep, keep chronicling them, whether it's video or audio or writing them down. I think it's so important. so, you know, to, to all of you out there in the audience, know, you probably have someone that you've trained with is beloved to you. Start writing down their stories now. You don't have to wait because one day that memory will fade a bit more.
Geoff Booth (01:30:38.152)
Thank you.
Geoff Booth (01:30:46.26)
Thank you. Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:31:00.389)
And you'll, you know, this I remembered this better five, 10, 20 years ago. And if there's one thing I believe about this episode is that there will be some who will watch it or listen to it that knew Dojima just a little bit. And they'll feel like they they know him a bit better now. And for people to get that opportunity is incredibly meaningful and powerful. And so to those of you with the stories, don't wait.
Geoff Booth (01:31:03.432)
Thank you.
Geoff Booth (01:31:25.34)
So.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:31:30.939)
Larry, Jeff, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:31:31.434)
Very good. Thank you.
Geoff Booth (01:31:33.422)
Thank you.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:31:34.666)
Thank you for giving us this platform. Yes, and we'll never forget him. All we have to do is touch our elbow or finger. It was God. Yeah, I remember that. All right, gentlemen, it was a pleasure.
Geoff Booth (01:31:49.299)
Thank you.