Episode 1118 - Ice Young
In this episode Jeremy chats with Ice Young about his martial journey, the importance of forms, how doing yoga helped him meet Diamond Dallas Page and his upcoming Sanda fight.
Ice Young - Episode 1118
SUMMARY
In this conversation, Ice Young shares his journey through martial arts, discussing the balance of training for fights while managing various responsibilities, including running a motorcycle club and a martial arts studio. He reflects on his past neglect of forms training and the personal challenges that reignited his passion for martial arts, particularly the influence of his father, who was his first karate instructor. Ice also talks about his upcoming fight and the new challenges he faces in Sanda, a martial arts style that combines elements of kickboxing and judo. In this conversation, Ice shares his extensive journey through martial arts, beginning at a young age and evolving through various styles and experiences. He discusses the importance of legacy, particularly the influence of his father on his teaching methods and the forms he passes down. The conversation delves into the practical applications of martial arts training, the adaptation of techniques for modern practice, and the often misunderstood role of kata in martial arts. Ice emphasizes the need for a balance between tradition and practicality, ensuring that students learn effective self-defense while respecting the roots of martial arts. Ice also recounts his unique connection with Diamond Dallas Page, emphasizing the genuine care and motivation that drives him in both martial arts and life. The conversation highlights the significance of support systems and the passion that fuels a martial artist's journey.
TAKEAWAYS
Forms training can be neglected but is essential for overall martial arts development.
Transitioning from fighting to forms can be a challenging but rewarding process.
New challenges in martial arts can lead to growth and development.
Understanding different martial arts styles enhances overall skills.
The journey in martial arts is often non-linear and filled with obstacles.
Experiences with various martial arts styles influenced his teaching.
Legacy plays a crucial role in his martial arts philosophy.
He emphasizes practical application in training.
Ice's teaching incorporates elements from his father's system.
Kata serves as a valuable tool for learning and fitness.
Forms are essential for understanding movement and principles.
Ice's approach blends tradition with contemporary practices.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
03:01 The Journey Back to Forms
05:58 Personal Challenges and Motivation
09:01 The Fight Experience and Transition
11:47 Family Influence and Legacy
15:00 Upcoming Fight and New Challenges
20:41 Early Martial Arts Journey
24:16 The Evolution of Teaching
28:09 Legacy and Family Connection
32:31 Adapting Martial Arts for Modern Practice
35:52 Practical Application in Training
39:20 The Role of Kata in Martial Arts
49:28 Understanding Forms and Their Value
50:48 Reinventing the Wheel in Martial Arts
51:40 Training Camp: The Journey Begins
55:02 Mid-Season Training: Balancing Strength and Technique
01:00:34 Tapering Off: Preparing for the Fight
01:03:11 The Importance of Support: Family and Community
01:04:48 Meeting Diamond Dallas Page: A Unique Connection
01:08:30 Closing Thoughts: Passion for Martial Arts and Life
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Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak (00:03.212)
Hey man, how are you? Good, thanks.
Ice (00:04.91)
Good, how are you?
Jeremy Lesniak (00:13.726)
You are sideways. I think you have rotation lock on you.
Ice (00:20.119)
I must not be able to handle my phone that way.
Jeremy Lesniak (00:22.242)
It seems like it does sometimes, but not always.
So yeah, how are you? What's going on?
Ice (00:30.862)
Good good been busy a lot of time training training for this fight running the school. So so obviously I have a.
Jeremy Lesniak (00:35.7)
Yeah, yeah, probably doesn't need much time other than that.
Ice (00:40.77)
No, because I run a motorcycle club too. I'm the boss at work, training for the fight, running my martial arts studio, running a motorcycle club. So it's definitely a crazy time.
Jeremy Lesniak (00:43.66)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (00:55.83)
Yeah. What kind of club?
Ice (00:59.145)
we're called higher calling. part of, we're at MC, but we're a charity driven MC. So we're always doing, Ronald Mc, you heard of the Ron McDonald house? Yeah. We just gave him a check for like $35,000. So we just did a really, really good, so it's rewarding, but, in the middle of fight camp, sometimes I got to stop and answer some calls and I have a VP, but sometimes I still have to be more involved than I want, but.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:08.0)
Yeah, of course.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:16.258)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:27.264)
Yep, I get that. Right on. Well, good on you for staying busy and doing good stuff with it. Yeah. Good. know, just digging out from the weekend and...
Ice (01:30.218)
of the undertaking.
Ice (01:35.583)
Thanks. How are things with you?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:43.426)
doing this and yeah, yeah, it's a busy week. It's a bizarrely busy week, but that's right. Sometimes.
Ice (01:49.18)
You put those tournaments together yourself, correct?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:52.002)
I've got Nick who handles most of the prep work and I work with him on things and then I ran the floor on Saturday. Like day off is kind of more my scene.
Ice (02:08.876)
Gotcha. I'm thinking of getting back on the tournament. I visited a few. I haven't competed yet. Some of my guys have competed, but 50 turn 53 getting punched in the face is getting less and less fun. So, um, but I haven't really practiced forms much in like 20 years, cause we're more of a combat school. So I've been working with other instructors in the area. Um, on, uh, my forms, getting that back. It's, funny.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:13.602)
Nice.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:26.56)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:33.44)
Nice.
Ice (02:34.54)
because he can be the best fighter in the world and then suddenly you go back to forms and you feel like you're tripping over yourself.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:39.394)
Right. Right. I have this, I have this saying that you, whatever, whatever part of your martial arts training you neglect the most, that's the part you'll find the most benefit overall in doing.
Ice (02:52.0)
Yeah, the guy I'm working with in Augusta, Kyoshi, he's very good with his forms. And here's a guy with a replace knees and hip and.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:01.56)
Who is it? Who are you working with?
Ice (03:03.525)
His name's Brent Creasy, I don't know if you've ever heard of Brent but...
Jeremy Lesniak (03:07.27)
Yeah, I, I print and I go back 30 years. Yeah.
Ice (03:11.624)
okay. So yeah, so I'm like, okay, I need help with forms. And he's like, I gotcha. So that's been my new part of the journey. So in between fight training, since I want to get back on the tournament circuit, I've been working back on that. And I've been working on forms that I've always kind of done, but not done. Like, I do the motions of the downstream going through the motions. And are you low enough? Is your is your knee correct? It's not the same. so it's, I don't know what made me stop doing them.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:17.026)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:25.376)
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:29.505)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:35.328)
Right. Yeah.
Ice (03:40.042)
Well, I do know it may be stop doing it, but I'm I'm enjoying getting back to that. Like, you know, I started with that stuff and now I'm going more full circle with that kind of stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:48.258)
Totally. Have you known him a while? Like, you go back a ways with him?
Ice (03:55.548)
So we don't, but it's funny though, because since we're in the same circles, like I've run into him, I have pictures with him. Hey, how's it going? How's your school going? How's your school going? Oh, that's great, right? So we've talked and I've heard reputation. when you know what you're doing and you talk to other martial artists, like, hey, I really want to get back to forms. Like everyone has their own person. I should talk to this guy. You should see this guy. He was the name that consistently came up the most. And
Jeremy Lesniak (04:00.95)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ice (04:24.272)
His style of teaching is good because I did a couple of forums with a couple other guys and it was great, but he like, he knows I'm a biker. He's a biker. He knows I'm a fighter. So he'll talk in those languages, if that makes sense. So rather than just, you know, grab the stance in this way, he's like, let's say you're going to hit somebody, right? You're going to come out of this way. And I'm like, and then suddenly it makes sense of where I'm at. It's I, I told him, I'm like, you speak ice and it's very helpful.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:32.982)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:37.792)
Yeah, totally.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:51.778)
Nice. Right on. Well, I'll because we're kind of in a flow. have two choices. We can either keep we can do roll as is or we can break and I can say all the pre show things that I often do to make people feel comfortable that I don't think you need because you seem comfortable.
Ice (05:14.162)
Yeah, I however you I'm always I'm I can talk about myself. I'm not bad at that.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:17.442)
Well, let's just, just, well, well, good, good. Cause that's why you're here. You're here to tell your story. So let's just keep rolling.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:28.894)
When someone says I pretty much stopped doing forms 20 years ago, that makes me think that it was conscious. Like, you did you actually say I'm gonna I'm done doing this? This, you know, what was what happened there?
Ice (05:43.855)
I think I just, so my last few fights that I had, I just really was focusing on everything but forms, right? So when I left the martial arts circuit, so to speak, and started getting in, in cages and, back then we called it no holds barred. It wasn't actually called MMA yet cause I'm old. And, so you start getting, I got only so much time. I had a young child at home and, that kind of stuff. So something's got to give. So forms went the wayside.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:58.838)
Mm-hmm.
Ice (06:12.675)
And there were times I'd still go through the motions, you know, and, but it was definitely going through the motions. But then when I would hit the heavy bag, I'd pour in everything I have into it, you know, I'm sparring, I'm pouring everything. So it just became a back seat. And then oddly enough, I decided to stop fighting. I had my last fight. I want it, but I didn't enjoy it. Like I enjoyed the last, you know, 19 fights at that point. And, I'm like, I don't think I want to do this anymore.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:22.167)
Hmm.
Ice (06:42.791)
But I, I continued to fight train and just never went back to forms. And I, I enjoyed them. If I was living through the channels back when you could flip through channels and streaming wasn't everything, you know, if I saw a competition and I saw forms, I admired them. I watched them. I love the old movies. Like, I don't know if you remember movies like a killer be killed, kill and kill again. They have, they were in the 81 and 83 and they all have that hard form and they stop in the middle of a battle and do forms. And they're like,
Like I still admired them, but I just kind of stopped. the training that I did just continued with the fight training and I'd go more to what eventually got called MMA schools. And I just trained around and there was a place in Dover, New Hampshire called Matt Randall's Black Belt Academy. And you could kind of go there and learn different arts for a little bit and trade off. I would start going to schools and it was always let's trade off some techniques. Let's hold pads for each other.
Let's I did breaking. We practiced breaking and I just, I never consciously did it. It just kind of kind of faded away. And then I, like I said, when I did them, it was, I was as a warmup. That's probably a good way to say it. Like, you know, here's my warmup and to go half-heartedly through the forms. And, uh, I just now realized I, I miss it. I want to get back to it. I've been attending a lot of, uh, tournaments, the, the fight I'm hosting, they're hosting the fights and then they're hosting a martial arts tournament the next day. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:10.722)
Hmm.
Ice (08:12.163)
You know, I went to one last year and I went as a gas looking around and talked with a Kiyoshi and a couple other people while we were there. And then the next thing I know that's one of them, head was called you're familiar with continuous fighting. So I'm like, I'm not a point fighter. We do continuous fighting. So I went in, I did that and really enjoyed it, which is like fighting without someone trying to rip your head off. So it's still full contact. We're still hitting hard, but we're just not trying to kill each other.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:25.174)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:36.149)
Right.
Ice (08:42.532)
And then I enjoyed it and then I went and came to the next one got invited to the next one because there's a there's a circuit I'm primarily do and I'm I'm I'm going to feel awful because I can't name the name of the circuit but it's Pulsar VZ Sifu Steve and I can't tell you his last name and he's the guys doing the fight promoter for.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:01.918)
Yeah, any MC?
Ice (09:06.282)
It's a zoo and that's that could be right. It's like he's got nine tigers and zodiac combat sports is putting on the fight. And then a professor Hatfield. He's part of that. I can't remember. call him Sifu. So I can't think of his last name, but I know it's Steve because Sifu Steve's easy to remember. So I've been enjoying that circuit and just said, hey, I want to get back on this circuit. So I started doing some studying.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:06.754)
Is that the acronym?
Jeremy Lesniak (09:27.852)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:32.225)
Nice.
Ice (09:34.185)
And that's when I told you I reached out to Kyoshi and I'm like, you're the guy. I need you to help me. And he said, I have just the form without even hesitation. And we've been working on some forms.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:43.746)
I love it. I love it. You said during your last fight, something had changed, something in your love for it had shifted. Any idea what that was?
Ice (09:58.376)
it was kind of funny. So it was in forksmith and it was one of the few fights that was called an MMI fight. As I said, they were mostly, no holds barred back then. And it was supposed to be an exhibition and I planned on being exhibition as a guy named Kim who was putting it on. And when he punched me, it was hard, like really hard. And I'm thinking exhibition and I spun him around and I choked him out and it wasn't because I was fighting. was cause I was angry. And I'm like,
And I always kind of told myself if I crossed the line where it felt like instead of sport fighting, it felt like fighting. So I'm like, OK, I've kind of just had enough and I never took another fight until last year. 20 years, I just didn't fight, trained, but didn't fight.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:44.32)
What made you get back in the ring?
Ice (10:48.458)
So that here's an interesting, deeply personal story. So, something really, really bad happened to me, which can happen to any man is, I met a one, woman who is wonderful and amazing and turned out she's also a really good cook. so I ate and then I ate, then I ate and I put on 65 pounds, maybe. So I realized I need to do something to get in shape. Right now.
While this is going on, my father developed dementia. He was sick. He got put in a home. I became his primary caregiver through the home. So I was there. If I wasn't there, my wife was there. We went back and forth and, he really had trouble remembering what he ate for breakfast, like all this memory. And I happened to mention, I'm going to take a fight because my father was my first karate instructor. Right. I grew up always knowing three things from him that was very important is.
One is always remember God is sovereign. Second thing, always practice martial arts. Third thing is all bodily noises are blamed on dogs. So those were the three things that he was pretty clear with. So when I mentioned it to him, he brightened up and started recanting fights that I'd had clearly. And we thought it was a fluke. The next day, he's never remembers the next day he goes, you start training for your fight. And I'm like,
Cause I told him I'd made a challenge and I'm like, you remembered that? So every day, if he got stressed and I wasn't there, I could talk to him on the phone about my fights and he would recall that I'd made this challenge. And when I made the challenge, it was just about weight loss. was going to be me and a local MMA guy in a gym. So as, as it progressed and I talked about it, he got sick. ended up getting pancreatic cancer. They said he had eight months to live. He ended up.
making it three weeks. And he had this moment of clarity that you hear about, but you have to experience to truly understand where it comes from. And we were talking and he said, I want you to tell you a couple of things. He said, you know, I always thought God had more for me to do. I wanted something big, but I realized the greatest thing I ever would do for God is not something I did, but who I raised. And I'm proud of you and everything that you do. I.
Ice (13:15.492)
I love your wife. You've chose a wonderful woman. And no matter what's happening, cause I know what's happening, go in, have this fight, make sure you do your best. ask me to win. Said have this fight, do your best and take care of your mother. So those were the things that he asked me to do. So at that point game on, you know, and I start talking about the fight online and
people are like, I'd like to come up next thing I know I got 200 people talking about this fight in this gym area that can fit 40 people. And then I got I got reached out to by representatives for any F Hey, you interested in fighting for us so not
Jeremy Lesniak (13:55.872)
which for those of you who may not be in New England, it's New England Fights. It's a local MMA promotion based in Maine.
Ice (14:03.482)
Yes. Yeah. So now I'm they're always there. The Portland, Bangor, or Lewis and as the three places where they where they host. So I go in, I talk to their owner who probably one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Like when you think of those type of promoters, you think of Dana White types. And here's this guy who's so friendly, so so warm cares about his fighters. And I eventually met the other owner, Nick, who just like Matt and
Jeremy Lesniak (14:23.873)
hehe
Ice (14:32.89)
They're, they're both great human beings and they were very interested in it. And, somewhere along the way, the MMA fight turned into a kickboxing cage match where they're like, Hey, we're going to be doing kickboxing in Maine. How'd you like to be our first kickboxer? So I'm like, great. I can stop studying all the grappling I'm working on so I can take one tool out for now. Right. Cause I do grappling. I do it for self-defense reasons, but I do grappling to get back up. I don't grapple to stay on the ground.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:00.482)
Mm-hmm.
Ice (15:02.916)
I've heard all the different people say this and that and 90 % of all fights end up on the ground, which in my opinion, 90 % of all untrained fighters end up on the ground. That's how I, I would put that.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:13.026)
100 % of them start standing up.
Ice (15:15.928)
Yep. So, so I was glad to back away and, it's still growing at this point. And, my father did end up getting up passing. And, so the fight got a little postponed with the date. And, then I got in a motorcycle accident. I had to walk with a cane for six months. I had to relearn how to walk. Told me I wouldn't be able to kick again, which I refused to accept, which I'm glad I did. just when I finally finished that, I got in a car accident, had whiplash and.
They told me to be six months in three months. I was, I was ready again. And then as I came out, my mother passed away. So what's supposed to be at 50 happened at 52. It was a two year process where all these roadblocks just kept getting in the way. And then a week before the fight, I got a concussion and pulled a severe groin muscle. Like nothing, you painkillers, nothing would stop it. But now I sold like.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:51.519)
my God.
Ice (16:14.329)
150 tickets, 160 tickets, all the pay-per-views. What are you going to do? So I got in the cage and they called the fight with me on my feet, like wobbling. So they called the fight, which if I would have been knocked out, you know, the guy had hit me and I fell and I got up and I just wobbled, which when you have a concussion, falling is one of the worst things you can do. Told the guy was fine and he just wouldn't. So what was supposed to be one fight I'm like,
Jeremy Lesniak (16:25.57)
Hmm.
Ice (16:43.244)
I want to do this again when I feel better, but I got to prove it to myself. So I started taking some local cage fights with, just like people at gyms and stuff like that, five or six, you know, and, I was, I was winning those or taking ones where it wasn't winning or losing. was just trading blows for three rounds. And I'm like, okay, I'm holding my own. So any F had reached back out for an opponent for me. And then the guy had health issues and,
Jeremy Lesniak (17:11.787)
Hmm.
Ice (17:13.12)
So we're like, what do we do now? And then Zodiac and I were talking because I talked to Sifu Steve a lot. He's just another like great, great person, human being and martial artist. And we were talking and that's when he's like, hey, if there's a belt involved, how'd you like to come for our fair sand tonight? And I'm like, are you serious? And I'm like, you're doing the whole thing with a ring and walkout music? He said, yup. And I'm like, I'm in. So and from that moment, you know, that's what we've been we've been building towards in July. So
It's been, he made a baseball card with me on it, which I'm like, I don't want to need to be rich and famous. I just need to be on a baseball card. So here's the highlight of my career right here being on a baseball card. So, it's, I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:47.127)
Nice.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:56.098)
I made one of those for you too. Where is it? You haven't even seen it yet. You want to see it? You haven't seen it. We can do the live reveal right here.
Ice (18:01.303)
I have not.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:07.478)
I've got a pack that I've got to mail to you.
Ice (18:09.559)
All right. well, that looks fantastic. That looks great. That would definitely be going on the mantle and not put away somewhere. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:14.422)
Yeah, those are.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:19.331)
For the audience, it's a thing we're doing for the Whistlekick League, which we haven't even done an episode on yet, but we will soon. Please keep going.
Ice (18:25.014)
So July 18th is everything I'm working towards right now. It's Sanda rules. So it's something that I've never done. So now there's throws, but not grappling. mean, they're standing grappling.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:37.186)
What are the rules with that? I've heard that term, I just don't really know what it is.
Ice (18:41.547)
So, santa is, it's almost like kickboxing, but they don't use that term because santa is the Chinese term for it. But I can throw you, I can sweep you, I can push you onto the mat. So there's no grappling on the ground, but there's throw. So it's almost like kickboxing mixed with judo would be a way that I would describe it.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:58.678)
This sounds more like really old school quote point fighting. when the old guys talk about the 60s, what point fighting looked like back then.
Ice (19:09.588)
Yeah, it's pretty similar to, to something like that. I, except for there, you don't stop when you hit it's continuous. It's just, it's like kickboxing with you to, you, mix it up. have this three, two minute rounds. and you get points for fighting or you can knock them out. When you knock out, automatically win. So that's good. But, so that would be my goal would be to get in, obviously you knock somebody out, but you can't have a head hunting is a dangerous thing in the sport. So you have to be careful of that. So.
But it should be a lot of fun, but having the throws added in is something. It's kind of new because I've been spending so many years lately working on the kickboxing that having this this santa. It's a new challenge and I do like new challenges so.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:56.512)
Let's go way back. You said your father got you started in martial arts. You said that he told you at the end of his life, make sure you're always training. Obviously that was important to him. Where did that come from and how did he get you started?
Ice (20:13.15)
So he started in the military and it was something that he always did. He was stationed in Germany. when I was four, and it's funny, a lot of people say they don't remember back when they were four. I remember going out there doing karate. He was in Gojiru at the time in South Berwick, Maine. And he would take me outside and he would kind of show me
Jeremy Lesniak (20:23.202)
I know.
Ice (20:41.864)
the Gojiru moves and we'd work on them. So by the time I was six and I took a formal class, I got there and I remember the instructor kind of like, well, he kind of seems like he's already been here before because for years I'd studied with my dad and he tried to show the, I had siblings, he tried showing them, but nobody seemed to be interested, but I just kept doing it. Like I just naturally enjoyed doing, I don't remember ever not having martial arts in my life because of that.
You know, I got my first junior black belt, I was like nine or 10. And that was pretty exciting. That was in, in Kempo, cause we had switched to Kempo. Then we went back to go to Peru after that. Cause the Kempo school closed. We'd find a really good school would be there for a while and something would always happen and someone's closing and moving around and, and, and systems look similar, but are not. So you go back and then you kind of, you go somewhere as a green belt, they call you a green belt, but you're really two belts.
below that because the techniques are so different. Even American Kempel was so different. We had three different schools for American Kempel. know, so we did Goju. We did Chilu. I know you're familiar with Chilu. So Chilu was interesting because it was a Kung Fu style, but they called themselves Chilu karate. And you got belts. And the instructor was called Sensei. But it was definitely a school of the praying mantis. It was definitely Kung Fu.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:51.842)
No.
Ice (22:07.09)
They actually went to China at one point and won when they went over there. I, one of my favorite stories from there was, I think I was 12 and I didn't know this at the time, but my instructor, he was out. So this woman came in, her name was Cindy and very quiet. Some people used to call her Teddy bear, you know, down in Summersworth, New Hampshire. And she'd be like, okay, let's so.
Jeremy Lesniak (22:10.935)
Well.
Ice (22:36.558)
I was kind of goofing off. And so she's like, do you have a problem? And I'm like, no, continue. She's like, excuse me? So she's like, if you're going to be in class, you need to listen. And I'm like, I'm listening, just not to you. so she was like, why don't you throw a punch? And I'm like, I don't hit girls. And she's like, I remember very clearly she said, you won't. And so finally she egged me on and I half-heartedly threw a punch. And I remember hitting the wall.
But I don't recall how I hit the wall. I just remember suddenly I'm slamming into the wall and I'm like, I'm just going to stay down here for a minute. Just give me a minute. And I didn't know at the time she was the one who went to China and won. And so she was a champion over there. And I remember getting back in line and never questioning that woman again. I was kind of done at that point, you know? So that was back when martial arts could be rough.
Jeremy Lesniak (23:19.755)
Hmm.
Ice (23:33.987)
You know, I remember being able to be hit with Kendall sticks back then when your form was wrong. Like you could never do that now, but back then it was just accepted. You're in karate, plan on it. Push-ups on your knuckles, hardwood floors. That was common.
Jeremy Lesniak (23:51.2)
Yep. Yep, I remember those times.
Ice (23:52.963)
So I always did it. We did it together. was something we bonded over. And he actually became one of my students later on, which that's kind of an interesting story if you're curious about that as well, that journey. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:08.034)
Yeah. And anything and everything is fair game. If it's a story you want to tell, I want to hear it.
Ice (24:13.625)
All right.
So this is the story I told actually at his funeral when I did his eulogy, because it was such a fun story. So I couldn't stop doing martial arts, but my dad was a traditional guy. So how are you going to rebel? I started doing Wing Chun. I did some combative arts. he, she hated that stuff. I ended up getting a black belt in Hapkido. I did all the things that he was not a fan of. And I decided that
I was going to teach and if I was going to teach and this is fast forwarding I think I was in my early 30s at this point maybe mid 30s and him and I were probably early 30s we weren't talking as much we were very close when I was younger you know but I'm I got so much going on in my life it's still hey how you doing what's going on and I told him I said I've kind of come up with my own way to fight and I think it's going to work really really well so he said
We don't need a new karate system. I go, well, it's not really new. It's based on everything else. just kind of, you know, I've done a lot of street fighting. I've done bodyguard work at this point and, which bodyguard work was actually pretty boring besides the training. Cause you follow people around in a car and you do nothing. But, I don't know. Yeah. So I decided to test it and I decided to start going to every competition schools that offered sparring and,
Jeremy Lesniak (25:30.923)
if you do it well.
Ice (25:42.637)
there were these three well-known black belts that he knew that I knew on the circuit. And I decided to challenge those guys. So I told him I was doing it and I went to his house the next day. my mother would laugh so hard at this story. Like even when I told them at his funeral, it's one of the few times I saw her smile. So I came in and he goes, so how did it go? And I'm like, I won. And he goes, so you fought each one of those guys like in the same night and you won. And I go,
no, I fought him all at the same time. And he goes, his favorite word, he was a pastor. So this was a big word for me. That's bullpucky. And I remember saying, I knew you would say that I'm so glad I recorded it and pulled the tape out of my jacket. And I put the tape in the VCR. And he watched it in silence. And then he turned to me and he goes, maybe you should show me what you're doing. And
Jeremy Lesniak (26:37.408)
I love it.
Ice (26:40.904)
He became my student and my best friend and we were inseparable from that moment on. We would attend seminars together and Spen and I would show him my stripped down take on martial arts. it's very Kenpo influenced because that's a lot of it, but there's some Gojiru mixed in it. I now have a name for it because I had no choice, but I used to say I teach a mix of Kung Fu, karate and Hapkido. That's what I would say.
But people love names. So I started calling it Ku-Hap-De because of the ku from Kung Fu, hap from Hap-Ki, do-te from karate. So all I did was take the three words and just squish them because people like names. And then it's so Kempo based, I started calling it Ku-Hap-De Kempo, which is more fair because it's probably 70 percent Kempo. You know, instead of going and grabbing a joint lock, like I'm going to come in and then grab it. So it's definitely more Kempo than the others.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:19.03)
Mm-hmm.
Ice (27:39.557)
But we spent a lot of time until he got so sick. It was around COVID. He just couldn't train anymore. he just constantly, in fact, a couple of weeks before he passed, I remember him getting up out of his chair when someone's saying, well, I need to help you up. And he threw a snap front kick that really snapped. I mean, you could hear it. So he always had that martial arts on his brain. was always there.
It was how we, we, we bonded and after his funeral, my mother gave me one of his first black belts that he had gotten and then his last black belt that he had gotten. So I actually have those on my nightstand with a picture of him and his military garb. So I feel like he's training with me whenever I train and I put all of his stuff in this huge shed and I've been slowly going through it and it's interesting how things work. So.
I did a ninjitsu seminar this weekend I'm down at Discovery Martial Arts, which a couple of great owners down there too. Zach and Mark just great guys and I needed a gi and the gi that I have is short sleeves because when I spar, I don't like sleeves that get in the way. So they're like, well, excuse me, we're going to be doing a lot of throws. It'd be helpful if you had some type of sleeves. And I came across my dad's old gi and it fits. So I actually wore his gi to the
training. I put pictures online wearing a black gi and that's that's my dad's gi so it felt like he was right right there with me. so it's I always think of him whenever I watch the movies whenever I'm training when I'm teaching somebody it's you know it's it's always been just a thought my daughter this has always been a family thing and I feel like I'm passing on a little bit of him and his his there's a form I teach that he created that I just put in the system
Jeremy Lesniak (29:12.631)
Nice.
Ice (29:37.09)
I wanted the early bells. I caught the young form was my last name and. But he did it and he worked on it a lot and he had it down so I just decided you know what I'm going to put this on my teach people has the form that he was so proud of. So one of the forms I teach is form he 100 % created on his own.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:55.146)
Nice. You know, I hear you talking about this and you know, we think of at least as it's been told to us, these family lineages of martial arts and how this used to be the way and just the way you're talking about your relationship to him, seems like it makes so much sense that why would you not do that? Why would you not pass down a form that your father made?
it helps your children understand your upbringing and their grandparents and builds connection to family levels. You know, potentially if we go back when this was so commonly done, it seems like it would just connect you to where you come from. It seems to make so much more sense than I ever thought about.
Ice (30:47.776)
Yeah, it's how it used to be done from father to son and and what I teach. I always say, well, it's my system. It's this and it's that when it's number one, it's an old system that I'm just, you know, but some of it so much of it was affected by him because when I before it was the system I taught, it was just something I was using to fight on the karate circuit with, you know, when I wasn't doing the NHB all out hook and shoot off familiar with hook and shoot that kind of stuff. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:51.521)
Yeah.
Ice (31:15.34)
Hook and shoot was one of the original like MMA like things that would come locally and you could just sign up. They didn't even check your background. I'm a 23rd degree black belt. All right, great. Come on in. So like it was some crazy, crazy things that people would say. The 32 year old guy, I'm a 10th degree grand master. Okay, guy. But, they just didn't check in anything, but I want to get on the karate circuit. But then it became a system when him and I would work together and, we discard things. We'd put things back in.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:19.883)
Hmm.
Ice (31:43.914)
So it's really became ours more than mine at that point. Because there are so many things I do and ways I move that he was like, well, wouldn't it make more sense to do this? Wouldn't it make more sense to add this in here? So it really does carry on his legacy. And he loves martial arts. my wife recently became one of my students. She'd expressed a little interest, but never really had done it. So she just got her yell about.
about February 13th. that's been fun too, because I go to the dojo, she's now there versus when you're going to be home. Well, you're right there with me. So and she's been doing really well, which in a year from now scares me if we have an argument, but she
Jeremy Lesniak (32:28.588)
Yeah.
Ice (32:31.489)
She's even like my brother who's one of my assistant instructors. He was like, her kicks are getting ridiculous. mean, they just snap. She never kicked before, but she's picking it up really, really well. And it's that bonding, you know, experience that when you teach somebody that's a part of you as a part of my dad, you know, and my daughter was with me when she was young and she stopped when she got into senior year of high school.
Jeremy Lesniak (32:44.524)
Nice.
Ice (32:58.369)
And now she recently she's seen the pictures and she goes, I miss training. I should come train with you guys. I'm like, absolutely. Bring it, bring Ava. I started working on with my granddaughter and, I have pictures of her and I'll have to share them with you and send them to you. put, I put my, my grappling dummy down and she saw me doing arm bars and I have pictures of her. was, can do that grabbing them and throwing them into an arm bar, spinning around, doing a ground and pound just from mimicking me.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:08.179)
fun.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:13.516)
Yeah, please.
Ice (33:27.305)
I have my phone, I'm like taking those pictures right now. So I'm like, she'll be a quick study. So she is five, five and a half. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:31.65)
Wow. How old is she?
Jeremy Lesniak (33:37.25)
Awesome. Do you teach kids? Do you have kids classes?
Ice (33:41.793)
So I don't have kids classes, but we are going to probably in the fall, I'm going to probably have my brother's probably gonna be in charge of kids classes. I've been working on like some of the stuff that we do. like someone's coming in with a punch and you crane out and it's a C-strike. And I'm like, I don't know if I wanna teach a seven-year-old to do a C-strike to the neck. So we've been working on instead of changing things, changing targets.
so that when kids go through the system, so you can come in here and palm the chest versus kind of hitting the throat. We do a lot of eye pokes. So we turn those into palm strikes to the eyes. So we've just been monitoring it. I just think it's irresponsible to teach a seven-year-old when he's mad at a kid for taking his GI Joe. Do kids still have GI Joes? All right. Okay, so you take their phone or their
Jeremy Lesniak (34:33.334)
I don't think so, unfortunately. They have phones and I think that's it.
They take their phone.
Ice (34:40.383)
K-pop demon hunter. I think that's the thing right now And then they just poke them in the eye and go well, I learned it today so
Jeremy Lesniak (34:42.934)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:48.678)
I could see that happening and going badly, but plenty of schools modify their curriculums for youth.
Ice (34:57.725)
Which makes sense. I went to some where they were completely different programs, but I didn't want to want to do that. So I went to one school where the kids completely just kind of punched and kicked and ran around and I didn't want to do that. think learning some techniques. was learning techniques at four, not that I was good or had the greatest attention span, but I, the earlier you're at it, the more it's with you and in life, I think so.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:25.346)
Yeah, completely agree. So when you, you know, it sounds like the, this curriculum, this style that you've put together is pretty serious and heavily focused around practical application, self-defense, and maybe even some, some combatives, some competition combatives. Is that where you focus with your adults or is that what people are there to learn?
Ice (35:52.583)
Yes, it's very so because of my dad and his tradition. I told you had an effect on this art. Originally I wasn't doing anything that had tradition. And then I come up with a term that I say we give a nod to tradition without being bound by it. I don't want to call anybody out or point, but there are some schools out there. They almost become like bullies training bullies. There's no respect and everyone's trying to one up each other. So I wanted that traditional respect that's missing in combatives nowadays.
So we teach, I'll still do one step. I'll put all those things back in. There's bowing. We wear, we wear geese. have plain clothes day, cause you need to know what it feels like to kick in your hiking boots and jeans. But we put on uniforms. I brought belts back and things like that. So I have a very strong nod to tradition. I got my, my picture of, you know, the top, you know, martial arts people like, you know, Chao Young-Sul and Upkito, Ed Parker.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:22.242)
I
Jeremy Lesniak (36:33.986)
That's right.
Ice (36:51.622)
Obviously, was Presley. So and I'm, I'll argue anybody about whether he was a good martial artist or not. So, but we always had those when I was young. So we kind of have a traditional element. But the art, always have a saying I came up with. I say I, that's another one my dad and I came up with together is practical, adaptable, effective. The art had to be practical, whatever technique, then it had to be adaptable. And it had to still be effective if you adapt it.
So basically I teach techniques and then when you reach brown and black, I teach you not to do techniques. If that makes any sense. So I want you to move like you move, but you don't know how you move until you've trained in how I move. If that makes sense. Like, you know, it has to be something to teach. There has to be something in the beginning. Then when someone pulls something off and they say, was that right? I'm like, did it stop the person? Yes. Well, that was right. There is no wrong at that point. Now.
Jeremy Lesniak (37:28.962)
You good?
Ice (37:51.761)
When you get into forms, like I told you I'm back to, that's going to be a little bit different now there's right and wrong and how you want to look. But when it comes to fighting, the art and what I teach is in its effectiveness and it doesn't always look pretty. In most cases, it doesn't. You know, one of the things that. I when I started studying stuff, I started getting like anatomy books and things like that. And like, so let's say and I'm going to make up the number, but let's say 12 pounds of pressure breaks the jaw, right?
And pulling back here to 50. So why are you pulling back there to 50? It's probably more important that I hit you before you hit me. So we'll do a lot of we're here, hit, hit, fold, hit. So it's got a lot of really in close things. I worked with a Krav Maga instructor named Adam out in Portsmouth for a little bit. And I was shocked how we had a lot of similar ideas and concepts.
And he was like, you know, did you spend some time in Krav Maga? I didn't. But I think when something makes sense, I've done a lot of street fights. And back in those days, if you remember in the 80s, karate guys, we didn't really have much rules. Don't bite, don't kick to the groin and everything else went. You just went and beat the heck out of each other. I mean, I walked away with broken noses and I saw like that was that was the day. So you kind of know what worked when you were that way. So so I focus on that kind of stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:07.362)
Pretty much. Yeah.
Ice (39:20.391)
But you have to learn a technique. So the combative things that say, we don't teach techniques. And I'm like, what are you teaching? Like you can do that with black belts. Like I can take a black belt and show him. I, there's a ninth degree grand master that I've been working with who is a great martial artist, but he doesn't know self-defense. And he'll tell you that he's like, I know how to hit. know. So showing him a technique, I can show it to him four times and he probably could use it because of his background. But you take someone off the.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:48.928)
Because he has context. Yeah.
Ice (39:51.002)
Yeah, so he knows where it's coming from. So the combatives though that are doing this with a white belt or equivalent of a white belt, that makes no sense. Like you can't do that because they don't know how to punch. They don't know how to move. Like everything has to start somewhere and that's through, you know, techniques and movement, but every technique teaches a new method. And then they find that out later. Like I have a technique called, so I came up with a key because I think it's easier for people to remember techniques. Like I had to learn.
One of the systems I did had 300 techniques and they all had a number. Dude technique number 258.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:25.524)
Mm-hmm. It's a lot of memorization
Ice (40:27.462)
So I came up with, so a straight punch is called a typhoon as an example. So one of the first techniques is fictional typhoon. Fictional typhoon shows a straight punch coming in and it's slow and it's direct. And it's called fictional typhoon because it teaches how to attack by faking. So it's in the name. And then I need to make sure that what if they don't fall for it? So it has an alternate where
So they come in, they hit, they expose their ribs, you hit the ribs, right? So what if they don't? Well, we do what's called the scoop. So we throw the punch, we just grab the elbow and the rest of the moves can stay the same. If something became too complicated, I got rid of it. I wanted to make sure that you didn't have 25 techniques from a right, left straight. Like I think that that looks great in martial arts if you want to learn different techniques. But if you want to be able to fight,
Your brain's now got to pick. So, and I even did some systems again, no offense to the systems. They were pretty and they were fun and all that stuff. But if someone threw a left right, the right defense started differently than the last technique you learn. But wouldn't I be doing the same technique and then have to adjust to the left? Why is there a new technique? I know a left is coming. So like one of our basic punches is somebody comes in and they're close with a straight. We come in like this, right? Pairing and hitting at the same time.
So the left right combo comes in.
But it still starts from here. shouldn't be a different. Well, now it's two punches. It's different. So it's very stripped down. The 60 techniques to black and after black you learn concepts. I have a I do stick fighting. I have a black button. Escrima from Master Ricardo's Escrima, which that guy I don't know if you've heard of him. He learned from memory. He's amazing. So I actually own my school.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:27.424)
My Screamer training is that lineage as well.
Ice (42:31.793)
it is. So you'll find this interesting. So I own my school with my brother and with his son, Aaron. That's who I own my school with is with Master Ricardo's son. You do. Small world in the martial arts world.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:40.224)
I know it. I know, Erin. I do. It is. It really is.
Ice (42:47.073)
So we have a very strong, between me, my brother, and Aaron, like we have a lot, we have a guy who teaches Shotokan, who comes out too. So we have a lot of available in the school, but I teach my, what I learned from him, but I don't teach like, Yirsten Walley's, I teach him as drills. But what I do is, cause again, I don't want to overload self-defense students. Now, if you want to learn that stuff, I'll, I will teach,
Jeremy Lesniak (42:58.497)
Nice.
Ice (43:14.221)
You're better off learning from Aaron than me because he's much better than I am with the sticks. But what I did was I take the techniques you already know and put sticks in your hand. Put one stick in your hand, put two sticks. So instead of you learning new, you know, we have a technique that I call strikes to destruction, which comes in. You do a double block. It's from that big punch. You step in and it's punch, punch, punch, punch, punch. It's one I personally used in real altercation. So it's one I know I can pull off. I know someone can pull it off. You put sticks in your hand.
Same technique. So I teach sticks, but I teach sticks on the same techniques. You don't need to learn something new. You just need to learn how to use the sticks or one stick. So it's, but I now I put forms in there. The forms are just techniques strung together, but the getting back to that not your tradition because I've discovered if you really want to be a fighter, you want to be a combat guy. And it sounds funny. I told someone recently is
Learn how to punch and then learn how to dance. And you're going to be really fit or you can do Kata because the other kombata is going like Kata and they're like, what do mean? I'm like, you can't just get fit doing techniques. There's plenty of 300 pound martial artists out there who will kick your butt. so Kata is keep you fit and keep you strong. Why not get in shape with what you already know? And that's where my, my Kata ideas have kind of changed a lot. makes sense. So.
So I follow a lot of the plus sign, which normal Japanese martial arts try. then I teach, are you familiar with any Japanese arts? So I teach like, kek sai dai ich. I teach that one, which I think is a great form. And I put it as yellow belt because that's a great, here's how you move and punch at the same time. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:51.234)
Mm-hmm.
Ice (45:09.579)
combative people start looking at that stuff and go it's not necessary I Disagree, I believe you can learn to fight without it But you can eat chocolate cake without frosting too. Like it just adds that extra element
Jeremy Lesniak (45:22.358)
And my point is, if I have a new student and I want to send them home to practice, they don't have the knowledge and the confidence in their knowledge yet to say, these are the things I need to train. But if I've taught them a form, you know, my school's primarily Okinawan and philosophy, we call them katas, we do the haons. And if I send them home to work on pinyon shodan, go do pinyon shodan five times a day.
They're going to get better at the things I need them to get better at. But if I just say, go home and spend 15 minutes a day training, training what? They're going to train the thing that, you know, the couple of things that they like the most and feel like they're the best at. They're not going to come back that much better. And I think that's, you talked about teaching techniques and then pulling the principles from that and letting that inform the techniques that they choose. To me, that's exactly what kata is for.
It's giving them that foundation that they can start to pull principles from.
Ice (46:23.219)
And it really like I went to one combat school and the guy was really good I won't his name but he was really good and he he's like you're really putting katas in there, you know I've known for a while and I said, yeah, but he goes it's such a waste. It's a waste of time You know, he's like they can go do their dance somewhere else, you know and So I'm like, so what do you do? You just teach the same technique and he goes I've developed what I call mass attacks and I go, okay, what's that? goes so We have a pre-ranged agreement of what's gonna happen, right?
So you're going to step to your left and you do the first technique and then you're going to step to your left and twice to your left, you're going to pretend this guy's coming in and then you do it to the right. I'm like, a car. And he goes, it's not a Cata. It is a prearranged mass technique. Cata. he's like, we're not talking about this, but like, dude, Nope. That's, that's what you're teaching. Like you may not be jumping in the air and worried about like.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:04.342)
Doop. Doop.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:14.64)
He couldn't see it.
Ice (47:23.282)
What I considered to be God awful was jumping in the air and spinning into pigeon stance. But, you know, you're still teaching a, a kata. That's what it is. So, um, when I do my kickboxing, I was surprised to find out in kickball, I have a black belt in kickboxing. I got it last year, which I thought I was a downer in rank, but I decided, okay, I'm kickboxing anyway. Time to start going through the system. And it was only three belts. Um, but we started going, okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:32.002)
Mm-hmm.
Ice (47:52.946)
Here's your combos. And we started doing combos, like shadow boxing, but pre-arranged. So you're doing these combos this way, then you go left, then you go right, then two back, then two forward. And they would switch it up, but it's still, it's still a kata. It's still a, this guy's coming in, you're doing jab, cross, hook, thigh kick. Then in this direction, you're doing hook, cross, hook, side kick. Everybody's doing katas. They just don't want to call it something else.
So they feel revolutionary, but like, if your system doesn't teach cross-stepping, so you're doing a form without cross-stepping, it's still a form. It's still kata. Like people go, they jump through hoops to not use words like kata and form. And that's exactly what they're teaching because it's effective. I don't care what anybody says. It makes sense. You need to learn how to move after you do a technique. What better way than with a kata?
Jeremy Lesniak (48:51.508)
If something shows up in almost every iteration of a thing, it has value. And for someone to discount that value suggests that rather than finding the value, they've just dismissed it because they didn't look hard enough. Or maybe they had an instructor who didn't take it deep enough for them and they assume that's all there is.
But every martial art that I'm aware of that, you know, going back more than 50 years had forms of some sort.
Ice (49:28.657)
Can I learn how to move after you've done a technique? And boxing himself, did some boxing. And it wasn't my favorite, my boxing instructor can tell you that, because we'd be boxing, and he's golden gloves, and he'd hit me hard, and he'd, hey, put that foot down. Put that foot down.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:30.764)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:49.07)
I love it.
Ice (49:49.209)
And I don't mean to, but also I realized that I'm chambering my leg going to kick him in the ribs. Cause it's just kind of, kind of there. And he, just stops. He won't even keep sparring with me when I do that. Cause he's like, I do not want to be kicked by you. And he'll, I don't mean to do it, but, even in boxing, you know, they have combos and they do, okay, here's these, do these three combos and they'll do them in class and they'll practice them. Kata, care what you call it. You're doing a form, your pre-arranged set of movements.
from the combat system that you're teaching, you're doing Kata. So people who say Kata doesn't make sense and I don't use it, they think because again, they're not cross stepping or, you know, they're not my personal favorite, which I said before, jumping up, spinning around and landing in pigeon stance, which you can tell I have a personal problem with that one because my ankles did not like that in Gojiru. We had one where he jumped up and spun around and you'd land in that pigeon stance. I hated that.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:37.857)
I can tell.
Ice (50:48.406)
Well, because they don't do it. They don't think it's Kada. it's, it's funny. People are trying to reinvent a wheel and they're not reinventing the wheel. just changing the name of the wheel.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:00.898)
Yeah, they're, they're, they're they're drawing different letters in the white walls. That's all. That's all it is. So we're recording this. mean, it'll be out forever, but we're recording this at the end of March. Your fights mid July.
Ice (51:05.164)
Yep. Yep.
Ice (51:17.454)
July 18th.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:19.618)
What, you know, this far out for, I mean, the majority, vast majority of our audience is never gonna take a fight in the way that there's gonna be a fight camp and prepping in this intense way. what is training for that look like now and how does it change as you get closer?
Ice (51:40.104)
So I was in what was called the off season and now we're in what my head coach calls mid season. so my head coach, I call him Ninja cause he's got a fourth degree black belt in ninjitsu. He's done cage fighting. taught American top team, in Florida. and he's got a great background, but the ninja thing is cool. So he's Ninja. just call him Ninja. So Ninja has my structure. It was funny. He was at the ninjitsu camp I did.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:47.115)
Okay.
Ice (52:08.786)
I actually said, Ninja, and like five guys are looking, wondering who I'm talking to. Do you mean me? There's a bunch of Ninja right here. so I was doing like strength training. Like I was benching a hundred pound dumbbells. I'm, I'm doing pull downs with stacks. I'm a squatting with a few hundred pounds on my back and I'm doing that twice a week. I'm doing, my, hitting the bag.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:11.34)
Hahaha!
Jeremy Lesniak (52:16.962)
That's funny.
Ice (52:36.67)
You know that kind of stuff maybe three times a week. So that was what it looked like. So now we're mid season, right? So now I get up in the morning. I'm working with him two days a week. I'm working with my Muay Thai coach Ruka who he's a vicious human being in a nice way, but like my shins really hurt after working with him. He actually fought in Thailand. He is a tough dude, tough dude. And what's funny is he found Thailand in his 30s.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:56.002)
I believe it.
Ice (53:05.224)
And as tough as he is, he's my age. He tells me on the time I'm not for letting people punch me in the face, but he's training me nonetheless. So I work with him twice a week. Um, and, uh, I'm working with a guy whose name is, uh, Dustin and I call him CD coach Dustin. Um, he has a school in, um, Lewiston. Um, I think it's central Maine BJJ, but he does Muay Thai as well. So I work with him. Uh, it's going to be once a week with him.
So that's my training balance wise. Then from there, my weight training has gone up to three times a week versus two. But instead of the heavy bench pressing and that stuff, which is now only done every, I think every 12 days, I think, is I do pushups off of plates where I push it up and fall down, push up, fall down. Then I have bands set up, which are, I'm in my basement where I do most of my training. Like I have a band tied to a pole over there and it's,
It's that I'm grabbing plates, stuff like that. So my squats are now holding, I have a TRX and I jump holding the TRXs. that's not as fun as just getting super strong, but it's very, very necessary. So along with my coaches, that's what my weight training looks like. And I'm still fitting in my martial arts, my Kempo training, my wife training, my own Kempo working with Brent Creasy who we talked about in the beginning.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:04.514)
Mm-hmm.
Ice (54:32.968)
I'm glad I remembered his name. Once you start calling somebody Kiyoshi, he's just Kiyoshi. Somebody will go, who is that? I'm like, Kiyoshi. Like, I know he has a name, but, so, so I've been working on forms with him, which, uh, as we said, he's, he's been great and it's nice to do it because he slows it down. So it almost feels like time off. So the hour and a half with him working on forms, getting lower, getting to here. Um, so it's been pretty full.
As it gets closer, becomes two times a day, six days a week, hour and a half twice. Now it's about 45 minutes to an hour, but it'll be 90 minutes. I'll get up in the morning about 4.15. I will feed my eight cats, because I have a lot of cats. Yeah, I love my cats. I'm a cat guy.
Jeremy Lesniak (55:25.376)
Clearly. Now that or your wife, your wife's, it was one of you.
Ice (55:30.779)
Well, she had no cats and I hated cats and then we got one cat and he was a Maine Coon and Maine Coons are like dogs and it was amazing, but he was lonely. So we got another cat and then those two cats got along. And then I happened to see this one other cat that she had Harley colored. She was, you know, orange and black and I named her outlaw and she's just amazing. Well, she came with a brother. So then we ended up with four.
And then she saw another one and he was black with white. looks like he's wearing a leather jacket. His name is Brando for obvious reasons. So they just kept growing from there. And the next thing I know we have a.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:08.907)
But by the time you get four cats, you're gonna have eight cats. That makes sense now.
Ice (56:12.738)
Yeah, you might as well at that point. Once you have four, why not have eight? So I get up, I feed them, I make my protein shake and my morning kick from Chuck Norris, throw that together. Spent about 20 minutes watching like the last dragon or whatever martial arts movie is going to pump me up at the moment and come down to the basement. And that's when I start my workout.
and I'll be there for an hour and a half. I'll start off doing stretches. My martial art doesn't have round kicks in it. What I teach is all straight kicks, you know, and if it is a round kick, it's not what you would think because all my all my kicks set up punches on the street. You don't really I don't want to kick someone in the head anymore than I want to punch them in the foot. But when I'm training for the cage, I definitely want to want to kick you in the head. It's now different. So I do a lot of stretching. I do yoga.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:01.218)
Excellent.
Ice (57:09.507)
that was invented by a friend of mine who he actually wears one of my one of my t-shirts. His name is Dallas Page. He was a wrestler back in the in the 90s. was at
Jeremy Lesniak (57:21.762)
I'm sorry, did you just say you're friends with DDP? Okay, why are we burying this at the end of the episode? You can finish your thought, but you're gonna talk about that for a minute. Which is super funny, because he came up in my last episode too. Interestingly, yeah.
Ice (57:24.451)
Yes. Yes. Yep.
Ice (57:33.795)
So yeah, I'll send you a picture.
Ice (57:39.313)
he did. I have pictures of him on my Facebook wearing my eye shirts. He wears my eye shirts for me and stuff, which is great advertising, I must say. So I'll do my DDP yoga and then I'll do my stretching, which is my least favorite thing. I do leg swings. Like, are you in your forties? Okay. So you probably still hit that. You remember going in the machines and you'd stretch the machines and you'd spend 20 minutes on the machine. I'll stretched out at beginning of class. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:45.058)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:55.958)
Yeah. Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (58:06.622)
the prank, the... Yeah.
Ice (58:09.941)
Yeah, so apparently those now not considered as good as dynamic stretching. So the stretching that I'm doing is I'm doing leg swings and then I have a back of a chair where I put my leg up with my toes pointed, rotate my heel, lift my leg, rotate back, which ends up being kind of painful. but I have those that I do. my whole stretching routine after my yoga is probably another 20.
And then I get into the dynamic lifting my circuits, like I was talking about jumping squats. I call them jumping pushups, but, you know, so that's just all that dynamic stuff. And an hour and a half later, there's, there's puddles on the floor that I have to clean up. It's, it's, it's pretty rough. So, so that would be a typical morning when I'm not with a coach. And then that night I will work pad holding, my wife, how she ended up taking lessons from me is.
Jeremy Lesniak (58:52.418)
I believe it. I believe it.
Ice (59:06.12)
I had a day my pad holder didn't show and she is such an amazingly supportive woman. She's like, can I hold pads for you? Now she was a swimmer in college and she was also a musician. So pad holding has a lot of rhythm. So within 10 minutes, she's holding the pads better than a lot of the guys that I've worked with. And she's just, and I'm like, this is really, really good. So as she got into the pad holding,
That's what made her go. I want to know more than just pad holding. So it actually led to her becoming my student. But so now at night, if I don't have it with someone else, she'll hold pads for me. My brother will drive an hour and a half from New Hampshire on his night to hold pads pads for me, which is good. Him and I do a podcast together. So sometimes we'll do the podcast and then we'll train after the podcast. So we do a movie pod. We just did nine Chuck Norris movies in a row before he passed, not even realizing he was going to pass. So yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:38.178)
That's cool.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:54.138)
Cool.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:00.896)
No way. unfortunately, wonderful timing.
Ice (01:00:03.388)
Yeah, so that was.
Yeah, he's I feel like I lost someone I knew when when he passed so. So it's a it's been rough, but so then that night's another hour and half. So that's what it'll be like seven weeks out. That'll start hour and a half. I'll train. I'll work. I'll train. I'll sleep. I'll train. I'll work. I'll train. I'll sleep. The guys in my club and everyone knows you're not going to see me much unless you're one of my training camp. You're not going to.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:10.921)
Mmm, you're not alone.
Ice (01:00:34.948)
See me much and if I do see you, please don't eat pizza in front of me.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:40.778)
When I would imagine, I mean, obviously you're not training in that way up until the day before your fight. So when does it start to taper?
Ice (01:00:48.816)
last time we did it seven days out, it started slowing down three days out. didn't really train, but we did techniques. So I came in very slowly, making sure my hips are still moving, things like that. So that's kind of how we did it, but it, it really slowed down right around then. And then two days before we didn't do any training. still stretched, but I didn't do dynamic stretching. got up, I did my DDP yoga. I moved around a little bit.
we got together and I watched people eat. That wasn't fun, but, know, discuss strategy again. Are we locking everything down? but you really want to make sure you're rested. Not to mention if you got to make weight, like, I mean, I went to sauna three times a day doing jumping jacks and eating like half a salad. No dressing was my only food the last three days. So that was, so this time I'm dieting earlier, so I don't have so much to lose.
My buddy, I don't know if you know who Bruce Boynton is. He was a Taekwondo world champion and then got into cage fighting. he's well known. He, any F his very first fight, he will kick knocked out a guy in like four seconds or something. He's just, he's Taekwondo black belt and he uses it in the cage and it's fun to watch, but he'll lose 35 pounds in three days.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:01:54.242)
I've heard that name. Why do I know that name?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:01:59.839)
Okay.
Ice (01:02:16.536)
I'm too old. My body's just not going to like that. I'm steadily doing it, but you can't train too much when you're doing jumping jacks in a sauna and not drinking water. So it's good to slow down, but you couldn't train to that level when you're water cutting and things like that anyway.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:38.39)
Yeah. Okay. Wow. So
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:45.388)
We've been all over, we've been all over the map on you. And I wanna know how you met Diamond Dallas Page. And we could do that story now if you want. But I'm just curious, is there anything we're leaving out? This is the story of you. And I wanna make sure that we cover you as a full rounded martial artist and human being.
Ice (01:03:11.002)
I think if we're cover me, and I'd say make a short, a long story short, but that's way too late for that. You know, I married to the love of my life who's literally my best friend. A lot of people say we do everything together. It's been amazing. She's just fantastic. My brother, who I have the school with.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:03:27.394)
That's all.
Ice (01:03:36.921)
Amazing guy. He's just really supported me. He's not my blood brother, but he's been my brother for 25 years and We're we're we're close like brothers. Sometimes we fight like brothers. So it's all all there I got an incredible daughter beautiful beautiful granddaughter Brothers in the club that support me You know and I I was a pastor. I was lead pastor for seven years assistant for two. I still guess preach
So I'm either praising the Lord or punching someone in the face, I guess but It's You know all starts with God then it comes down to my wife my brother like my children my grandchildren so family I Wouldn't be able to do what I do without support of the family and those I love around me. So I come down to Really the support of my god my family and and my friends
And I would sum up, I'm who I am because of them and their support and their love. And that's really what makes ICE who ICE is, I guess.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:04:43.616)
All right, how do know DDP (Diamond Dallas Page) How does that happen?
Ice (01:04:48.855)
So it's kind of funny. And I actually did some bodyguard work for him after this, How we got together is, so I'm 38 years old. I'm very unhealthy. I went through another unhealthy phase. Like I told you, I did it when I turned 50. So I needed to get in shape. So I did DDP yoga. I found it online and I started doing DDP yoga. And I decided at 40, I wanted to cosplay as Wolverine to some event where you had to go with somebody.
so I can't be Wolverine and have a keg instead of a six pack. So I did it. I entered a contest, Superfit or Herofit, and I put the pictures up. How did you do it? I'm like, well, I did it through DDP. So I get this phone call and it goes, hey, is this ICE? I'm like, yes. He goes, it's Diamond Dallas Page, how are you? And I said,
Stop screwing around, Deacon,
Jeremy Lesniak (01:05:49.75)
Hahaha!
Ice (01:05:53.622)
So he calls me back and he goes, check your Facebook message. You're on Facebook? I said, yeah, I'm on right now. And he goes, check. And he messaged me through his Facebook going, I assure you, bro, it's me. So he was like, I'm coming to Rhode Island. I'd like to have you kind of come down, share your story, help me teach a class. I like what I've seen. Let's get together. So we started talking and I have the pictures of teaching with him and his wife. In fact,
One of my favorite pictures I'll have to show you is a picture of him with his hand on my shoulder and him and his wife are dying laughing because I don't know what made me say it and I'm lucky it didn't take him off. But he goes, who are some of your inspirations? Right. And I don't know why, but I went Walker, Walker, Texas Ranger, his martial arts and all that. DDP leans in, he goes Walker, goes, you know, he's not real. Right. And I just looked over and I go, neither is wrestling. Shut up.
and I was trying to finish my story.
And instead of making him mad, he just laughed and somebody, my brother, my brother snapped a picture of him dying laughing at my comments. So, but, he's been calling me. We talk, we message all the time. say all the time, but you know, maybe a few times a month or whatever. And he was like, bro, send me one of your shirts. And he's, have a picture of him outside of his house in front of the water, doing, doing his diamond sign, wearing an ice t-shirt. So it was kind of, kind of a cool thing to have, but he he's just a good.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:07:08.208)
what a trip.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:07:25.378)
That's pretty cool. He seems like a good guy. I don't know him.
Ice (01:07:25.768)
Good guy. Good guy.
Ice (01:07:30.844)
Yeah, Jen generally cares about people. Some of those gurus types don't. He genuinely cares about people when he hears stories. I've seen him get moved to tears by letters and things people say he is. He is genuine. He's he's the real deal. He loves people. He wants to make people healthier and he's just got a I got a really, really good, really good heart and he's been through a lot of stuff in his life. And he's done all these things that he doesn't take credit for. He found Bon Jovi.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:08:00.044)
What? No. Really? What?
Ice (01:08:01.019)
Yeah, nobody knows that. Yes. Yes. Bon Jovi, he heard him at a party and invited him to play in his club. And that's how they got discovered. And he just, he'll tell me that, but it doesn't, there's no interviews. There's no, that's where Bon Jovi got found from is him. Like anybody else, you'd hear it all over the place, but he's a humble guy. So he's just not going to brag about that. He just wants to make people fitter and have better lives.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:08:17.986)
Grace? Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:08:25.922)
That's cool.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:08:30.08)
If people want to find you, how do they find you? Where are you online?
Ice (01:08:33.764)
so Facebook, ACE ACE ice, HCMMC dot young, if you want to dash young. So I'm the part of the only ISIS on Facebook. I don't think there's a lot of us. So, but I slash HCMMC young, you can find me on Facebook, follow me or send me a friend request. I also have a page KHT combatives, which is my martial art, which I just started where I put up a lot of my, philosophy.
Which someone just told me I sound a lot like Ed Parker, which I don't know if they meant as an insult or not, but that's a pretty big compliment if you ask me. I'm like, I'll take that. And they had a fair comparison because I made a comment about move like a circle and strike like a line. And they sent me an Ed Parker quote where he said, well, a line ends, a circle begins with a circle ends, line begins. So I will take that 10 times over being a Kempo guy.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:09:07.222)
That's a huge compliment.
Ice (01:09:27.676)
But yeah, KHT combatives, I put a lot of my philosophy and things like that up there. My martial arts philosophy or find me online if you want to follow the fight. Zodiac Combat Sports, they'll be pushing the fight. put the first, I've known since January, but haven't been able to fully announce it until recently. And he's now putting the announcements up on his page if you want to follow that. And the day after is that martial arts extravaganza, it was going be breaking and forms and point fighting, continuous fighting.
great, great thing to go see. And Kyoshi's putting on an event. If anyone's going to be there at that one, I think it's May 16th, May 13th. So I'll be there. Somebody's there and they heard this and want to come over and say hi. I might actually do my first debut of a form at his competition. So we'll see. So any of those places come and find me. I love talking martial arts. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:10:17.473)
Nice that's
Ice (01:10:25.165)
It's always fun to talk to people and get other people's opinions. Hear how people train what they do. You know, we're talking about Gekisai Dai Ichi and I've talked to four different Goju people who all have different beginnings and endings. The main form is the beginning. But if you talk to people, the beginning is so different the way that people start. that I always always enjoy. Even if you think we're doing something similar. There's always those differences that are always fun to to talk about. So yeah, if
Jeremy Lesniak (01:10:50.233)
The nuance is a lot of fun.
How do we close? How do we put a bow on this thing?
Ice (01:10:58.399)
I guess, first I want to say thank you for, having me on. I've listened to a lot of the, the podcast, you guys, you're always fun to listen to cause it's almost like you don't have a direct format. So you hear things you don't, but I've heard a couple other podcasts and the same guy on yours and you hear something, the other one is repetitive, like two or three, and then there'll be something on yours that's not on the other ones. Cause you get people breathing room. that fair?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:11:05.186)
Thanks for being here.
Ice (01:11:27.745)
Is that a way to say that? So I've always enjoyed it though.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:11:28.29)
That's a huge compliment. Thank you. That means a lot.
Ice (01:11:32.622)
So I was excited to be on here. Actually, after I got the official invite, I called my wife and I go, guess what? Guess what I'm gonna be on. So I was excited to be here. So I wanted to start with that, but really to wrap it up, I just want, I love martial arts and I love martial arts because my dad gave me his love of martial arts. And I personally hope someone who hears this message, if you're falling away from Jesus, you're falling away from Christ, take this opportunity to come back to Christ.
If somebody needs to talk you're feeling low you're feeling like maybe you shouldn't be on this planet. I want to talk to you to feel free to reach out. I will make time for you. have been there. Lots of people have been there. It's not just you and I hope people come out for the fight come out to Zodiac Combat Sports first Socko Sanda fight event. It's going to be a it's going to be a lot of fun and this is the fight I wanted to have last year. I promised my father and do my best having a concussion a pulled muscle. I didn't.
So I promised my wife I'm gonna stay healthy for this one. come out and let me show you what I can do in a good, healthy sporting environment. Again, Zodiac Combat Sports, they really are some great, people. It's a great organization and Sifu is a wonderful guy and very approachable. But come on out and if you do, say hi. Mention the podcast. Find me at any of those events. Let me know you saw me on here.