Episode 1132 - Doju Larry Dorsey
In this episode Jeremy chats with Doju Larry Dorsey about his journey in martial arts from professional football.
Doju Larry Dorsey - Episode 1132
SUMMARY
In this engaging conversation, Jeremy Lesniak talks with Doju Larry about the multifaceted world of his martial arts training. They discuss the importance of building confidence in students, the role of instructors in shaping future teachers, and the real-life applications of martial arts beyond the dojo. Doju Dorsey shares his insights on adapting teaching methods to meet the diverse needs of students, emphasizing the significance of genuine communication and rapport. The conversation also touches on personal experiences, safety in training, and the legacy of martial arts instruction
In this conversation, Doju Larry Dorsey shares profound insights from his life journey, including his transition from professional football to martial arts, the importance of meditation in managing anger, and the lessons learned from his mentor. He emphasizes the significance of teaching and carrying on the legacy of martial arts, while also reflecting on the challenges faced in his life, including homelessness and working in prisons. Dorsey advocates for a brotherhood in martial arts, highlighting the need for community and support among practitioners.
TAKEAWAYS
Martial arts training can transform individuals into better versions of themselves.
Building confidence in students is crucial for their success in martial arts.
Effective teaching requires understanding each student's unique needs.
Instructors should view their students as future teachers.
Real-life scenarios are essential in martial arts training.
Safety is a top priority in martial arts instruction.
Genuine communication fosters trust between instructors and students.
Teaching methods should be adaptable to different learning styles.
Humor and positivity enhance the learning environment.
Personal experiences shape the way instructors teach and connect with students.
Meditation can help manage anger effectively.
His journey from pro football to martial arts was transformative.
Respect and communication are key in teaching martial arts.
Life lessons come from both successes and failures.
Meditation can open up new perspectives and insights.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:02 The Importance of Martial Arts Training
04:53 Building Confidence in Students
10:11 Teaching as a Two-Way Street
14:58 Real-Life Applications of Martial Arts
19:50 Adapting Techniques for Different Students
24:56 Reflections on Personal Experiences and Legacy
25:38 The Journey from Pro Football to Martial Arts
34:10 Meditation and Managing Anger
38:41 Insights from Working in Prisons
40:53 Carrying on a Legacy
46:56 Teaching as a Lifelong Commitment
52:54 Reflections on Brotherhood and Legacy
To connect with Doju Dorsey:
ldorseys@aol.com
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Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak (05:38.798)
What's happening everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Whistlekick martial arts radio. I'm Jeremy Lesniak. See, it doesn't matter how we're over a thousand episodes and sometimes they still stumble over my name, but I am joined here today by Doja Larry Dorsey, who's been on the show. Thanks for being here. Looking forward to our one-on-one chat this time. And if you're new to what we do at Whistlekick martial arts radio, you might be surprised to know that Whistlekick.
is a much larger organization than simply this podcast. We do a bunch of things. We have events, we have products, we have protective equipment, we have training programs, we have consulting services. We do all the things that you might imagine a martial artist or a martial arts school might benefit from. So check out whistlekick.com for all of that. And if you love the show, specifically, if you're here, you probably do love the show, unless you're new, in which case, welcome for the first time. Make sure you sign up for the newsletter. Go to whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com, which is where you'll find transcripts and all that stuff.
Doju Larry Dorsey (06:26.968)
So, I'm gonna go.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:35.664)
And if you look up top, you'll find a place to sign up for the newsletter. And what is the newsletter? It's really an email that comes out twice a week that says, here are the new episodes. Here's the audio version, here's the video version. You click right on it in your email and you're good to go. And with that, Larry, thanks for coming back. I guess you didn't hate me from our first talk.
Doju Larry Dorsey (06:53.621)
Hey, no, no, never no mate, man. Thanks for having me come back. I really appreciate it because if you can get the word out on martial art, that's what we're trying to do.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:58.416)
Of course, of course.
Jeremy Lesniak (07:07.12)
That's what we're doing. Our stated goal of Whistlekick is to get everyone in the world to train for six months.
Doju Larry Dorsey (07:15.863)
Wow, now that would be a beautiful goal. yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (07:17.2)
Wouldn't it? Yeah, because I I don't know. I'm guessing we're aligned on this. I feel martial arts makes us better. It brings us to a better version of ourselves. And so if everybody was a little bit better version of themselves, that'd be a pretty incredible world.
Doju Larry Dorsey (07:38.024)
it would and I noticed that when people do want to come into martial art they have a point where they question themselves but if they can get past that point you got a martial artist but martial arts not easy you know and and you know whatever mcdojos whatever they call them I don't know what they do but abkido not easy painful and so people have to
If they make it through that little phase, then I know I got a student. A lot of them, they, you know, start wobbling.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:11.983)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:15.897)
When someone starts, do you think you've got a pretty good bead on whether they're going to stick around?
Doju Larry Dorsey (08:22.989)
You know, that's a very interesting question because. I have. Had students that I thought would stick and they do, but they stick the wrong way. They go three months, then I won't see him for three months. They come back for three months and eventually they will get their black belt, you know, because because I they got to train six days a week at least an hour or two hours.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:37.648)
Hmm.
wow. Yep.
Doju Larry Dorsey (08:52.567)
for at least three years to get their black belt three to five years. Now, if they only train three times a week, then it's longer. So what I get is a person comes in and they start doing or they do too much or they do too little or they don't like commands or you know, they don't like people talking to them like, you know, martial art instructors. And if I can break that down, break that barrier down.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:54.864)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:16.208)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (09:23.137)
and let everybody know, we're in this together and we're friends and you can go as far as you want. And if you have to back it down a little bit, I'm not judging you, brother. My goal is to make you a better human being. And that's the whole goal of Shinmuhapkido, make better humans.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:38.032)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:44.432)
Isn't it fascinating that so many people will get out on the floor and...
getting pushed, they push back. I think there's a natural reaction. People tend to think that we don't, know, those of us in the front of the room, we don't have their best interests at heart. That, you know, maybe we're sadists. You know, we like beating on them and taking their money and that's as far as it goes. you know, I'm sure there are some folks who fit that description, but that's certainly not the majority in my experience.
Doju Larry Dorsey (10:16.397)
I want no question.
Doju Larry Dorsey (10:21.641)
No, the thing when a person walks into the door of the doujian, I'm assessing them right away. I'm seeing if they came in with confidence or they came in with no confidence. They're shy there. Then I start building a program around them. OK, because I got to hit those buttons. If they're shy, I got to bring that. You know that confidence out out in them if they're.
blustery or or you know, that's you know, I hate teaching adults, you know, I prefer kids and teenagers because they don't understand the level you have to go to to inspire an adult that hey fall in line over this is gonna be very painful, you know, and so I Think after I get them going a little bit, you know
then build a rapport with them, then we're off and running. Okay, but if you never build that rapport with them and take them as individuals, you got a collective class, but each one of those are individuals and they have different needs. And that's how I roll.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:40.986)
How do you teach that to the next generation of instructors?
Doju Larry Dorsey (11:47.213)
easy. The kids, okay, I take them at three years old, phenomenal three year olds and all the way up to, you know, 20, 21, phenomenal, because they don't know any better. But just like I want to say it's almost like self hypnosis, or hypnosis, I repeat things and I hit different tones. Okay, to different people.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:48.26)
Yeah? Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:01.936)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (12:17.452)
because everybody learns different. Somebody has to do it. Somebody can see it in a written form or a picture form. So I have to assess and find out, is that you? Or do you like to do it like that? Or do you like to watch pictures? You read the books or you just learn from talking. I teach, I tell these kids and young adults, I don't teach students, I teach teachers.
And so that's my goal. I teach them how to teach and I make each one of them come up in front of the class. They must learn to give a speech and talk to people confidently, a large group of people. Number two, they've got to be able to demonstrate the techniques either verbally or physically. You know, the greatest teacher that, you know, when Doja Nim was
getting very old, he couldn't get out there and move around. So he spoke and you. Yeah. And that's so beautiful. If you can learn to describe something to where that person gets it. So I have a couple. I have at least five autistic kids when they first started. my God, they were, you know, all over the place. And then I started picking up. this is what
Jeremy Lesniak (13:23.044)
He described it, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:32.464)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (13:46.423)
This is what he understands, she understands. I'm gonna, you know. And of course, when people come to a martial art class and they see a black man teaching, they got questions. You know what I mean? They wanna know who is this guy? Because I've been trusting him with my kid, right?
And luckily, you know, you know, I could be a bad guy, but I'm not. But they find out I'm a retired police officer. So that knocks down one. Hey, I tell people I've hung out with princes and paupers, you know, all the way, you know, I was just thinking of that the other day. And I said, wow, you had a really.
Jeremy Lesniak (14:21.732)
I don't know, the leather jacket and the biker sunglasses.
Doju Larry Dorsey (14:41.994)
Weird life, man. I come from a town of a thousand, only black kid in the town. Then Ray May came. He was just won the Super Bowl with Baltimore and I'd never seen a black guy. I mean, I've seen him on TV and I never seen one in real life. And he had the big afro and he was walking tall. said, damn. So we went, he picked me up, you know, and I already had my scholarship.
You know, but he picked me up. We went to he had a farm for wayward boys in the middle of Kansas. I hate that farm. And eventually he sent the other three back to Colorado and we went to L.A. And I met O.J. and, you know, all these people. And I was like, wow. Amazing, you know, you have a leather jacket. That's my ode to the.
to the real crooks out there.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:44.816)
I want to go back because you said that effectively you treat all of your students as future teachers. You're giving them the tools to make sure that if they ever become a teacher, they're an effective teacher. And you talked about bringing them up in the front of the room and stuff like that. Is that happening? I would guess not day one, but maybe day two. Is that happening really early? OK.
Doju Larry Dorsey (15:52.812)
That is correct.
Doju Larry Dorsey (15:59.233)
Yes.
Doju Larry Dorsey (16:07.808)
No, no, no, you have to, you have to, once again, like deal with how they roll. Like I had one kid, he would not speak period. And they actually were putting him in therapy to speak. And, and so I'm not pressing him because I'll lose him up here, you know? So eventually a little bit, little bit.
And then I'm holding him right here and I said, let's go, let's talk. know, and now he's talking, not as much as I would like, but you got to deal with parents too. You know, sometimes they don't want a little Johnny to be pushed too far, but he's a heck of an athlete, you know. So no, I take everybody individually and if they're shy, I stand near them and let them know, hey, I got you. And if they're, you know, some guys go up there and
They're like, like, you know, Jesse Jackson or somebody giving a speech, you know, and I'm like, wow, amazing. You know, kids can pull some rabbits out of that hat, man. They're amazing. Yeah. Keeps me young. Shows me some techniques I need to work on because they do things and you go. I never thought of that, you know, and they just wilded, you know, and so we have fun. We have a lot of.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:10.032)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:37.016)
And this comes back to something that I think is really powerful in what just about every martial arts school does is yes, we are training together, but it's still an individual pursuit and an effective instructor can identify the needs of each person. They know, Hey, you know what? You need to work on that. You need to work on that. You need to work on that. I'm going to stand near you. I'm going to use slightly different language with you. And a truly great instructor can.
Doju Larry Dorsey (17:49.74)
that.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:07.116)
give everybody what they need across a, you know, might be an hour long class. And each student feels like, I'm sure you've had instructors like this, I feel like that class was for me. But I'm standing next to someone who also felt that. And every single person in there felt like somehow that class was just for them.
Doju Larry Dorsey (18:13.525)
Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (18:28.267)
Well, the thing that I noticed that when you're teaching, you got to be genuine. If they if the kids or young adults find some glitch in your system because you're not genuine, then they start to lose confidence, you know, not only in you, but in what you're teaching. And so I try to be I don't try. I tell them straight. I talk to them like adults and
you know, and in two years.
They have, the problem I have is I got size problems. I got one guy up here, I got one guy here, one guy here. And we do judo, the ground fighting and all that stuff, right? And so that's my biggest challenge is putting matching people together. And then you gotta be careful with the safety, know, cause kids go one way that they should have went the other way.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:10.628)
Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (19:29.193)
So you're always looking, I tell them I have eyes 360 in my head. And so far we've been doing really well. And I teach about 24 students at one time. And yeah, we rock and roll. got to adapt and overcome, And so you got to be innovative, you know, and they love it. The best thing I love is hearing them laugh, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:44.804)
That's a lot. That's a big class.
Doju Larry Dorsey (19:58.718)
laughing at me, I don't care, you know, because life is not, life is not so rigid. Like the other day, for an example, everybody gets a nickname, all right? And this one kid called this little kid Princess and of course the kid started crying and we had to bring him over. so I had to make a speech yesterday and I was telling him, nicknames only can be positive.
You know, because everybody has a nickname. OK, you had Walter Payton. What was his sweetness? know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anybody that's in sports or whatever, been in the jet, you know, all these guys. So but make sure that your nickname is a positive nickname. OK, and it describes you.
I said, what do you think? I said, how do you think Bigfoot feels? But hey, he's got a big foot, right? Yeah, so I was going to go into all the ethnicity of, you know, of nicknames. For instance, Latino people say, hey, local, right? I got to teach these kids how to survive on the street.
because that's where it happens. The map, it don't happen on the map. You can learn, but everything changes on the street. Black people say, hey, black man, right? White people say, hey, wood. So you gotta know who you're talking to and you can almost form where they came from, what their beliefs are.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:43.952)
Mm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (21:53.324)
because I used to read in the police work, I used to read their birthday. And I'd say, oh, 1952 Vietnam veteran, all right, hippie. And now I make a rapport with him and same way with my students. Once I get that, and I got them and I can help them and they helped me so.
They're gonna have to help me today because I'm gonna be tired. I'm gonna be like, dude, shut up. No, I don't. I don't yell at them like that.
Jeremy Lesniak (22:27.298)
No, you don't strike me as the type that needs to yell.
Doju Larry Dorsey (22:31.217)
No, I, that's a funny thing because we have another class and it's Taekwondo and they're, you know, they don't talk, they're rigid. What I mean by that. And I'm not integrating Taekwondo. I'm just saying this is what I see in my class. my God, they're talking. I'm like, hey, but when it's time to perform, they actually are able to perform and they don't get away.
When they turn 18, I got two that are gonna turn 18. They're gonna have to go through three eight-hour days of training and yeah back to back to back
Jeremy Lesniak (23:12.11)
Now is that because they are of a certain rank and they're transitioning from a junior to an adult rank or?
Doju Larry Dorsey (23:18.379)
Right, absolutely. Now Doja Niam used to have 10 day sessions and let, yeah, 10 day, 10 hours. And I remember we started with 75 and when we ended there were three of us standing, if you could call it standing. We were broken and...
Jeremy Lesniak (23:25.016)
You talked about that a little bit last time you were on.
Jeremy Lesniak (23:38.968)
And what's interesting is that that's roughly the number of hours most people train in a year. One hour, twice a week, 52 weeks. That's a year's training for most people.
Doju Larry Dorsey (23:46.623)
Yeah. Right. I, I, yeah. I don't, I, know, my, whole thing is teach the kids, you know, I teach them fire safety. That's all part of martial art. You know, if, if you smell smoke, you go to the door, you touch it, it's hot. You get out of there because it's going to get flashback. Okay. I teach them,
gunshots hit the floor. Don't look around like, where'd that come from? Straight bullets are no joke. So I teach them real life. And then their parents, of course, they kind of smooth it out, you know, cause kids take what you said and I go, God, I said it, but I meant this. yeah, they are.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:35.898)
Kids are literal. Yeah. So you're taking the definition of self-defense and you're applying it really broadly.
Doju Larry Dorsey (24:43.71)
Well, I won't.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:45.348)
broader than most schools and I support that. That's something that we talk about in my school too.
Doju Larry Dorsey (24:50.814)
Well, I like real life scenarios because I've been in, and people don't believe me, but I've been in over thousand fights, real fights. And they go, what? Well, when you're working in a prison, jails, or outside, in the jails, you can get three fights a day. And since I was a go-to guy, I went in, always by myself.
And that's how the crooks they liked me. They said, you're good, you know, because I'd go in by myself. The last fight I had I was 62 years old and lord that was a tough one because you've got a six by eight cell and you got all metal and you got the law. See, if I grab somebody and I break their arm then they're gonna
Jeremy Lesniak (25:33.456)
You
Doju Larry Dorsey (25:49.959)
sue me, they're going to possibly get my job. So you had to have control. You had to watch that your spine and your head didn't hit the concrete or all the concrete on those knees. Lord. so, you know, and that's the way. So I teach kids what could be because I know that as they get older.
that scenario is going to come up and they will need to know what to do. And so I harp on certain scenarios, right? You walk away. If they don't touch you, it don't matter what they say. But once they touch you, you have self-defense. Concrete is unforgiving. Right?
Jeremy Lesniak (26:48.106)
You teach adults too, I assume.
Doju Larry Dorsey (26:50.218)
Yes, I'm going to Mexico July 4th for a seminar and we'll see what happens. I went to Columbia and that was good. Although right at the end, I kind of started wobbling. know, I was like, whoa, slow down, Charlie. You're moving too fast. So I'm going to take a chapter out of Doja Nim's book and teach the technique and sit back because
I usually, you know, get involved and I like getting involved because a lot of people's bodies are different, you know, and so you got to get the tall one, the small one, the fat one or the, you know, that challenge, whatever they call it. And you got to get, yeah, the bigger one and you got to get the crazy one. You know, he showed me some techniques for crazy people that was just amazing.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:27.973)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:38.372)
The bigger one.
Doju Larry Dorsey (27:49.277)
And that's drugs and crazy people right across the eyes with your fingers. And that set them down. Of course, drunks hit the ears and, you know, because that messes with your equilibrium. So he taught me a lot of good stuff, you know, and even today, I feel, you know, I'm going to go visit his grave pretty soon.
I can't believe he's... I thought he would live forever.
Doju Larry Dorsey (28:25.032)
And I was telling you, I'm sorry. was telling you, I'm, well, I telling you, I've met all these people, man. I you know, Bishop Tutu, all these kinds of people in my life. And the one that stands out the most.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:25.1)
It's yeah, but it you go
Doju Larry Dorsey (28:45.546)
Don't you know? yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:47.876)
Why? What was it about him?
Doju Larry Dorsey (28:55.786)
That's the question. What was it about him? And nobody can answer that question. Just, you know, they couldn't stay mad at him for longer than a day or week. You know, he did some things that some people were not entirely happy with, and he just didn't care. I used to laugh. I said, wow.
them just didn't care you know yeah and and that's fine you know and and he kind of taught me that we're only on this earth for a short time and why do we need to stress out and get all crazy over small things you know or even big things there's no sense in it so that's where I'm working now
Okay, I meditate every day and he taught me some fantastic meditations. I meditate every day, but at same time, I got to learn to let it go. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's say that I didn't meditate that day and I'd be like, why?
Jeremy Lesniak (30:12.805)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (30:24.679)
So that's, he was an amazing human. And, but he used to say, I'm not ordinary man, Dorsey. And I said, no, you're not. And he wasn't, you know, so.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:32.599)
You
Jeremy Lesniak (30:38.352)
If anybody in the audience wants to go back to that episode that Larry and Jeff Booth and I recorded, it was 1113. so bunch of stories, lots of great stories that the two of you told back then. And we touched on this a little bit in that episode, but maybe we can go deeper here. Why did you start training in the first place?
Doju Larry Dorsey (30:51.538)
Yeah.
Doju Larry Dorsey (31:00.453)
Well, I need to plug in a little better, because it looks like the computer's going red.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:09.168)
Yeah, let's not do that, we don't.
Doju Larry Dorsey (31:11.535)
No, that's what I'm saying.
Still not. Whatever. We'll make it, hopefully. What made me start? Well, I came to California. I got out of pro football. I was homeless. Ended up here in San Francisco.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:21.41)
Okay, fingers crossed.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:34.424)
You hold on. That's that's something that I know a little bit more about this as we go back because the salaries weren't as big. But the idea of coming out of pro football and being homeless today would just be people wouldn't even be even be able to wrap their heads around it. You play pro football and you came out and you were homeless.
Doju Larry Dorsey (31:52.573)
Bye.
Well, when you spend your money and you're an idiot, you're here. And let me tell you, the truism is nobody wants you when you're down and out and, you know, not even family, friends, you know. So it wasn't it wasn't nice. I've been almost three times in my life. And I got here with twenty five dollars and. You know, moved around a little bit.
Could have went to the other side because I moved into the Embarking of YMCA and all that was there were crooks, you know. And so I decided, nah, I'm going to stay by myself. So these guys kept messing with me, two brothers. I saw one maybe 10, 15 years ago. I didn't even recognize him. He'd done 15 years in Arizona State Prison. But he'd hold it down for his brother. I thought that was amazing.
You know your brother older get in trouble you get in trouble with him. You know, that was a hell of a barn. Well, anyway, they kept messing with me. So I had my surgery on my doctor Andrew Carver. He needed to pass his, uh, his, you know, his examination. So he said, I'll give it to you for free. I had a turf toe on both feet. So he did my feet for free. And then
Jeremy Lesniak (33:00.814)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (33:23.825)
I went back to the Y and I was working security at, tell my kids and I was working security at 425. Now you have a drop from, you know, a pro salary to 425. That's very humbling. And so I gave away all the fancy stuff that I, you know, silk pants and all that through that. said, I got to start over, man. This is, this is it. And so these two.
had their little group and they would mess around with people, steal from them, beat them up. So I'm just going, right? I went back to school, I coached with Vic Ron and Andy Reed and those guys. And so I didn't have time to mess around. So one day the guy slapped me on the back of the head and I was like, OK, you're done. I went upstairs and got my machete and this. yeah.
And so when the guy, I never forget him, a big red, white guy, long hair down here, red hair, toothless, best body I've ever seen on any athlete. He did not do weights, but he was, you know, he was in the life, you know, his alcohol, drugs. And then years later he would come into the jails and we'd all give him money and stuff. Anyway, he told me not to do it. He said, don't do it, man. Don't do
Jeremy Lesniak (34:37.072)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (34:52.691)
So we calmed that down. And then I said, you know, they're done. I was walking to go get a pistol. And...
Jeremy Lesniak (35:04.112)
How old are you at this point?
Doju Larry Dorsey (35:06.697)
27, 28. And I went to go get a pistol because I was going to lay him down. And Meryl Jung was driving by and he ran the YMCA Taekwondo Hop Keto program. And he saw me and I didn't know him from, know, I'd see him sometimes he go, hey, why don't you come up and learn? I say, nah, man, I'm lifting weights and all that crazy stuff. And he said, get in. I said, no, I'm good, man. He said, no, get in.
So I got in and he said, what's going on? I said, nothing. He goes, nah, something's wrong. And I said, yeah, these guys are about to be put down. He said, why ruin your life over two knuckleheads, three knuckleheads, four knuckleheads? He said, come up. So he went up. He did a cartwheel. I did a cartwheel. He did a one-handed cartwheel. I did a one-handed cartwheel. And he said, not bad. He jumped through the air, no hands, landed over there.
I said, you know what, I I can learn something from this guy. And I also knew that I wouldn't be able to run at 50 because of the turf toe and the calcium and all that stuff. And I also knew that I need, I wasn't through doing athletic things. You know what I'm saying? If you go into coaching, you're coaching.
You're not doing athletic things. You're coaching people to do. And I still had a fire burning in me and I loved the spin kick. And then when I met Dojan it was just like, wow, this little guy, was like, amazing what he does. And then we lost contact for about six months. And then I saw his school and I walked in and
People ask me, what? Why? And I said, well.
Doju Larry Dorsey (37:11.497)
When they killed my brother and I told him, he just said, meditate. And I said, wow, you're an insensitive person, man. I thought he would say, And every time I'd come in, he said, you meditate? Pretty soon I said, maybe he's got something. I started meditating. And then two years before he died, I have the film. He told me, you want to kill a guy? He said, no, it will make me.
Jeremy Lesniak (37:28.814)
Hmm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (37:40.637)
bad my name he said you do this meditation
Doju Larry Dorsey (37:48.169)
And then you'll be OK. And I was like, how do you know all that? You know what I mean? Yeah, he's whispered to me. I love that, man. He'd walk by and know your butt's too high and her spin kick. Never put me on the carpet to embarrass me or anything. And that's when I loved the guy. was just. We we bide, man. I'd do anything for that guy, you know, because, know, I knew he was.
He wasn't enamored with all this out here. He had one job. Hup Keto. That's it. And as they say, you had one job to do and you did it fantastically. Yeah, he did a hell of a job with his Hup Keto. And he used to smoke. He cut that out. I never saw him drink. Gamble? Yes.
Everybody wants to hit that jackpot, right? That's a losing proposition.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:49.872)
Right, right.
Let's go back.
What if that van with the YMCA Taekwondo instructor hadn't driven by? What if you had gone and picked up that pistol? What if you had put them down, as you say?
Doju Larry Dorsey (39:10.214)
Well, with me,
How can I say? I have to watch my... And that's what meditation has done for me. I have to watch... There's a thing right here. And when I get very, very angry, it starts coming up like this. And I can push it down if I get a signal, right? If I like, wait, wait, wait. But if it hits here...
blackout. I don't know what I'm doing. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:42.864)
You've got a fire. There's a fire to you that I imagine served you well playing football.
Doju Larry Dorsey (39:48.933)
yeah, I'll tell you a quick story. I made a mistake about a month ago and left my car door open. And of course some knuckleheads went in there and took, there wasn't much to take, but they took it. And then about a week later they came back and I happened to come out the, bedroom and look out the window, just old man stuff, right? You know, you get up, you wander around and I, and they're there, five of them. They're trying to take my motor scooter.
So I opened the window and I said, hey, get away from my house. You broke into my car the other day. And one of them said, F you, come on down. I said, no problem. Down I went, And they pulled him away. But I said, how crazy are you, man?
Jeremy Lesniak (40:41.872)
One on five, those aren't odds that I would look for.
Doju Larry Dorsey (40:48.742)
Well, what you have to look for, that's how I made my reputation in the jails. I had to fight five convicts at one time because my partner had ran off. Yeah. And I know, and I hit the radio and I said, back up, back up. Battery dead.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:03.376)
It's not a very good partner.
Doju Larry Dorsey (41:12.53)
There was an OG. He stayed at the gate in and out. Nobody passes him. Nobody comes out. He said, I think there's a problem down there. They're all convicts, not inmates. And I was slinging, man. Boom, boom, boom, boom. I was trying to survive. And finally the troops showed up. Next day, he said, you're going to have to go back in there. I said, no, I'm not. He said, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:40.161)
He
Doju Larry Dorsey (41:41.916)
You're going to have to go back in there or you're going to lose all respect. So I walked in, I thought they were going to be silent as a church mouse. And I walked out and that's how started my career. OK, and the respect from the crooks. Yeah, you can't run in prisons, jails.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:03.984)
because you didn't run away.
Doju Larry Dorsey (42:09.961)
That's one thing you cannot do. If you run, where are you going? You can't go anywhere. You know, when I worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons, I was law library and athletic. And, you know, these guys would push my button and I didn't know how to handle it because I was 25, 24, somewhere. And so I'd go completely berserk, you know, not knowing.
that I was putting my life in danger because they don't play. The old lieutenant told me, said, you play football? said, yes, sir. He said, well, these guys play for real. I said, whoa, yeah. So that's a level of that's a level of inside your body that you you've got to watch your back constantly. And that's a level of stress that a normal human being will never get. Right.
So when you're teaching martial art, you got to give them the lessons of this stress may come up. This is how you handle it. You know, calm down, you know, and that's what I love by Dojine Ami, you know, calm down. He taught me a lot about being a Go ahead.
Jeremy Lesniak (43:28.42)
that experience in the overall experience in the prisons, what tools did that give you, not just as a martial artist, but as an instructor that maybe the rest of us don't have?
Doju Larry Dorsey (43:41.478)
Well, like I say, you got to read somebody. Okay. And not just physically, but mentally. Okay. And, I was a defensive tactics instructor, California post certified for 17 years and,
You know, they teach you all kinds of things. Watch their hands. Indicators. If their hands are starting to ball up, always watch the shoulder, because a guy can't punch without moving his shoulder. And the eyes, nose, bladed stance, too friendly. OK. And then I learned I love talking to people. I'd get a guy that was insane.
And before you know it, we're walking down to the where he could go get some help because I had to listen and I wouldn't disrespect them. That's the whole thing about life. Respect people and you won't have a problem. You know, and I teach my kids, thank you. Sorry. Excuse me. That goes a long way, especially in today's world. OK, so we harp on that, you know.
And if somebody's getting out of hand, they get a private one-on-one talk. Okay. And you cannot take away the playfulness of the kids. You know, that's not a class to me. know, kids, they need to experience levity. They need to have fun. But at the same time, they need to learn. So sometimes I'll be nice.
and sometimes I'll put them through the paces, you know, balance.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:33.614)
We all need both. We all need both, don't we? Yeah. You know, one of the things that we talked about in the group episode with Jeff was this notion that you are carrying on some of Dojana's legacy.
Doju Larry Dorsey (45:36.485)
Yes, absolutely.
Doju Larry Dorsey (45:53.467)
Well, I'm sorry.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:53.585)
And if that's not a fair way to say it, then please do correct me.
Doju Larry Dorsey (46:03.034)
No, you're absolutely true because here is where people and I do not fault anyone, but he laid down nine rules. Nobody follows them. I won't say nobody, but I would think that the majority of Shindouhokito people, they don't follow, don't eat chicken, don't eat scaleless fish, don't eat, you know, whatever.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:03.852)
Okay.
Doju Larry Dorsey (46:31.975)
Don't drink cold water or hot water breathe through your nose slowly all kinds of things and meditation north east west south whatever and People say well, you're gonna carry on is yeah, cuz he taught me And he taught me and I followed those rules Those nine rules became an integral part of my being okay, and
Jeremy Lesniak (47:01.402)
Do you understand them or do you follow them because he said to?
Doju Larry Dorsey (47:03.535)
Of course. No, you got to research. I love researching, you know, you know, because you've got to get a global understanding of what somebody's saying. OK. And then as you meditate. Yesterday was a fantastic day. I was seeing stuff before it happened. Then it would happen and I'd go, wow, you're on top of your game today. You know, it is amazing.
Meditation does some really nice things. And shout out to my master Tachi. He said that Dojuneva told him meditate every day. So that's what he did. And I just saw a picture of him. I used to watch him on these tubes or whatever, and he would be stretching and meditating. So he followed. He told me, you have a good way with children. So I teach children. See?
And I asked some people when we were in Tucson, I said, what did Doja Nam leave you?
You know, I mean, he left everybody something and nobody could really answer that question. See, because they didn't think about it. Now, he left me as Doju, gatekeeper of the way. See, everybody thinks, oh, Doju, Doju, it's just a title, but it carries a heavy weight with it. The title itself is just like Mr. or whatever.
but the inner workings of doju gatekeeper of the way is pretty heavy. like we'll bring it back to what I was saying. I don't, I follow the nine rules I have for the last 44 years. I don't drink, okay. That's one of the rules too. And all my family drinks and everybody, you know, I can't even go out to dinner.
Doju Larry Dorsey (49:08.753)
Because everybody's like, what do you have? I don't drink. now I'm trying to make excuses. I'm like, yeah, doctor's orders. No, that's a good one.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:18.672)
This old old Hopkins instructor told me I wasn't allowed to drink. That's that's going to go over well, right? So yeah, I.
Doju Larry Dorsey (49:26.853)
Yeah, so, you know, I know that culturally, you know, if you offered a drink, sometimes you're not going to and you say no, you're done. We were in Korea with Dojin's daughter. We all live in the house. Sean Bradley, me and Chris Garland, few other people. And she made a special chicken. Each one for each one of us.
And when it came to me, I said, I'm sorry, I can't eat chicken.
And I felt so bad, but I couldn't break my thing, you know, for her thing, see? So those are decisions you gotta make. And back to the kids, I'm teaching them so that when they do get to 18, 19, 20, they can have a base to live a good life, you know? No alcohol, this, that, stay in shape, you know?
all kinds of things that the normal human is not getting because they have to work. If you got to work, you ain't trying to go to the gym and work out. You might want to, and you might go there once or twice a week, but it sure feels better to have a beer in the head and a feet propped up. So that kind of discipline. I've been walking. I don't think I've missed a day in the gym.
And I've never missed a day of teaching. When I had a stroke, I went the next day and talked. When I had problems in the prostate and I had the catheter with the bag, I went and talked. When I broke my elbow, I went and talked. So when people tell me, know, my leg, I said, man, get out of here. I don't want to hear none of that, you know, because
Jeremy Lesniak (50:57.872)
Mm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (51:28.198)
You have a mouth. You can teach with a mouth. You don't have to physically do it, as long as you can explain it.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:38.124)
One of the things that I've said and I suspect you'll agree with this and it irritates a lot of people because it's true. The way you spend your time reflects your priorities. What I just heard was teaching is one of if not the most important thing in your life. So you found a way.
Doju Larry Dorsey (51:56.187)
Yes, and I love teaching. You know, I've been coaching unbeknownst or known for all my life. You know, I used to take kids that weren't on the basketball team. We spent a summer working out and I was 15, 16 years old so they could make the basketball team. So I reflect on that. I say, you know what? You've been teaching a long time, different people.
I can't say that on here, I call my house because I've had numerous kids come and live in my house that didn't have either the parental guidance, especially during the crack epidemic. Parents were not around. So I call my house HOES, House of Education.
And they got, I put them on a you know, program. They don't have to do no martial art, but they got to be on a strict program because I got to change your mind to where the trauma and the drama, you don't have to worry about that, but you cannot be lazy and take advantage of that. So same way with my martial art, you know, love it.
Some days I don't even want to get off the mat, man. it's the best. you know, I look back and I say, man, what if I went into coaching football, you know, and, you know, and I say, no, everything goes the way it's supposed to. See, I don't deal in what I want or what I need. I always deal in isms.
Jeremy Lesniak (53:23.342)
I know that feeling. That's a good feeling.
Doju Larry Dorsey (53:48.474)
That's what it is. That's what it is. You know? And if you can start living like that, you know, then the stress starts coming off of you. You know, that's what it is. That's what it is. Don't give me I hope I wish I, you know, no. Guy's a brown belt. That's what you are. See? And not all but.
You know, I should be enough. You should, but you're not, you know. So, yeah. So back to what you're saying, Doju. I, I at first I got a little excited because that's a big honor and I didn't expect it. But about a month early, he had said to me, I'm to make you famous. I didn't. And I'm trying to get on down the road. Right. And then one of the most honorable things he did.
He was in bad shape. I went to see him. He had gotten himself together and he went to Korea and he told them Dorsey, you know, Doju. And I don't know what happened, but I can imagine what happened. lot of them. What happened? No. And I thought that was the most honorable thing he could have ever done. And I tell people.
first American to ever be named Doju in a Korean martial art, Hop Kido. See? And that's big stuff. Not for me. You know, I've slept on park benches. I slept on concrete. I don't give a crap. But it's important for the kids. It's important for the disenfranchised.
that know that you keep your nose to the grindstone and you believe in yourself and you get a little break, you can do anything you want. It took me three years to make pro football. Three painful years running on those turf toes on the concrete. my God. And so that's who I am. Once I start and I want it, I just keep moving.
Doju Larry Dorsey (56:11.494)
I don't care if it's pain, I don't care what's going on. I just keep it moving, you know, one foot in front of the other. And I'm looking for who's going to take over, you know, because...
I could just give up right now and just say, hey, I made doju, I'm done. Right. But there's somebody out there that has the same mindset as me or dojinim and they deserve to carry on the tradition. So you got to look for them. But you know that old saying, the teacher will
arrive when the student is ready or yeah so that's part of the as part of the you know chill out it is what it is you can't force it that's the one thing that is the hardest thing
If I force something, I get ahead of time. If I don't, you know, I'm lackadaisical, then I'm behind time. You have to find that fine and let it flow right there. And that's the hardest thing in the world. You got to practice that every single day, you know? You got to practice it so that when issues come up,
You don't be stressing. You say it is what it is. Go ahead.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:54.617)
Yeah. Well, we're going to start to wind here. And I've learned from talking to you today and last time, you know, typically when I ask a guest to close, I'll, I'll, you know, I'll give them a short window. I'm not, I'm not pigeonholing you into a short window because sometimes you, drop some knowledge that, takes a few minutes. So want to make sure we have space for that too. So let's, let's do this part. If people want to get ahold of you.
Doju Larry Dorsey (57:58.99)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (58:21.838)
website or social media or email or any of that. Where should they go?
Doju Larry Dorsey (58:27.149)
they can get me on Instagram. now you ask me, come on, man, I'm gonna have to come up with this. You can get me on Instagram under made in July 54, I think. And then, of course everything from my, from my email, ldorses at aol.com and, my school, which I haven't had for
almost 15 years now, but it's up there. The website's still up there. And I keep getting these reviews. I look once in a while and I get a real three. You know, used to be fives, but I haven't been there in 10 years. So I'm like, oh, people must think that I am trash, man. And so Community Martial Art is a good one. I'm in the process right now of changing everything out. Right. As Doju.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:07.952)
You
Doju Larry Dorsey (59:25.219)
Because I got to build a base. OK, world shin mu ha kido. That's Dojin M's thing, which I'm the world president of. However, the thing he gave me, I got to build it. So I've been slowly getting this and that and this and and hopefully I'll launch in September and then I'll probably have to be doing a lot of traveling to spread the word.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:40.228)
Mmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:53.241)
Mm.
Doju Larry Dorsey (59:54.637)
So it's important that people get a hold of me. love going to, I don't really like going to seminars. I like staying in hotel rooms. That's my thing. It is airports and hotel rooms. That's the, and teaching martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:08.336)
What's your favorite airport?
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:00:12.23)
I gotta say Tucson because it's small and you just walk right through right. LAX doesn't do anything bad to me you know but I can't take Denver and Atlanta you know yeah those kind of airports but
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:34.768)
If I'm in Atlanta, I've always got a long way over. seems like, seems, know, Atlanta, only five hours this time? Okay, great.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:00:37.849)
Yeah, yeah, let us.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:00:44.097)
It's it's a I gotta figure out how to start moving around to you know, cuz if I'm gonna start doing seminars, the thing with being in San Francisco, you know, leasing a place, the place I had I leased for just a minimal amount of money, because I was teaching his son. And then they decided, well, 20,000 is that post to what he's paying.
They made it a marijuana dispensary. couldn't, I couldn't, you know, I was there 13 years. I couldn't fight him on that. said, man, you got to make your money, you know? And so, yeah, lot of work to be done, you know? And hopefully I can, those of you who say I'll be flying around until I'm 75, 76. Let's hope that happens. And, you know, I really...
Nobody, I don't know if anybody can feel the feeling I had for that guy. You know, I know a lot of his old school students and everything, they had a thing against him for some reason, right? And I never got there. Sometimes get close, right? I go, then I'd remember this man taught you things to save your life. You know?
And he took you all over the world. Korea, Mexico, wherever you're going, And, you know, you met a lot of great people that you otherwise would not have met. And so a lot of people owe him a lot of things. you know, they don't some of them don't feel that they do. But I guarantee you when they're having some kind of event, they put his face up there.
And that sometimes that makes me angry because say to myself, you know, he waited on you to call him or say hi or, you know, but people get too busy. I understand.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:02:53.008)
In most of the traditional martial arts schools I've been in, the person in the front, when they're leading the bowing, there's two sets of bowing. There's bowing between the instructors and the students, and then everybody's bowing to the head of the room. We all owe what we do to those who came before us. And I think sometimes people forget that.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:03:14.134)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Well, I think they become enamored with the MMA and all that. And I shut them down quick. I said, yeah, they fight and they kick and they bloody each other up. I said, but you got to you got a ring and you got a referee. In real life, you ain't gonna have that. And if you get popped and you can't take that pain or you get popped.
and you can't continue, you got a problem. So that's when I don't watch MMA. I don't like watching violence against people. The only time you should do violence against somebody is when they're trying to do violence to you. And you do it only as much as necessary.
And that's what I couldn't get across to some of these cops and deputies. said, no, why did you do that? All you had to was control him. I said, OK, whatever. You know, so. Here we are, you know, and. I'm after this interview, I'm going to go back upstairs and crawl into my bed because.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:04:36.592)
I want everybody to know that Dojo woke up early to do this. He's on the West Coast. So I appreciate his flexibility so we can make sure this happens.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:04:47.668)
Yeah, you got it you guys are doing me a big favor Yeah, no, I I appreciate everything you guys do You're putting martial art out there different people different philosophies different, but it all cumulates to one thing You know that circle You know circle of life And you
That's it. See, and people don't understand that they want to they want to go linear. No linear. You cannot, you know, Earth rotates. Right. It's circular. mean, you know, it's it's so I also go with just an aside.
I, people say, well, your, your belly's getting bigger. This is that. Well, what I do is I go by the seasons. Okay. So we're humans, but we also have DNA that, you know, so in the summer, I lose weight in the winter. put on weight and that spring I start losing weight, you know,
And of course, eating according to the seasons. See? And that's how I've always been, you know. I say the seasons are there for a reason. know what? The plant doesn't grow in the winter. Some do, they come out in the spring.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:38.84)
Maybe in San Francisco, but where I live, they don't.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:06:40.964)
You're funny. Good. Well sir, do you have any more?
Jeremy Lesniak (01:06:46.924)
Yeah, thanks. No, I think this is a great place to close it. Thank you so much for being here. I do appreciate your time. And I hope that we'll talk again at some point.
Doju Larry Dorsey (01:06:57.484)
Well, I hope so too. In closing, I'd like to give a shout out to all the Shinmu-Hapkido people all over the world. Keep doing what you're doing. You know, it doesn't need a leader. It just needs a brotherhood. And if you got a brotherhood, you continue to do what you want. Leaders come and go, you know, and for different reasons, you know.
So just keep the brotherhood and in a hundred years from now, I would like to see, you know, this was Doja Nam and, know, and this was Ken McKenzie and Ian Sand Cyrus and all these people, right? That made it happen, you know.