Episode 1135 - Why Adults Struggle More Than Kids in Martial Arts
Why do children seem to have an easier time learning martial arts than adults? Listen in as Andrew is joined by Nick Taber as they discuss.
Why Adults Struggle More Than Kids in Martial Arts - Episode 1135
SUMMARY
In this episode, Andrew Adams and Nick Taber discuss the challenges adults face in martial arts compared to children. They explore various factors including physical differences, mental barriers, emotional baggage, and the importance of community. The conversation highlights how adults often struggle with flexibility, fear of judgment, and the weight of past experiences, while children tend to learn more freely and adapt quickly. The hosts emphasize the need for adults to find the right martial arts community that suits their needs and to maintain a growth mindset throughout their training journey.
TAKEAWAYS
Adults often struggle more than kids in martial arts.
Physical differences, such as flexibility, impact performance.
Mental barriers like fear and self-judgment hinder adults.
Emotional baggage from life experiences affects learning.
Finding the right community is crucial for adult learners.
Kids learn martial arts while growing up, adults are still growing.
Adults may question instructors more than kids do.
The fear of being bad in public affects adult participation.
Adults have more obligations that can interfere with training.
A growth mindset is essential for success in martial arts.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:56 Physical Differences: Flexibility and Recovery
07:47 Mental Barriers: Fear and Self-Judgment
13:59 Emotional Baggage: The Weight of Experience
18:41 Community and Commitment: Finding the Right Fit
24:30 Growth Mindset: Adults vs. Kids in Learning
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Andrew Adams (03:25.602)
Welcome, you're listening or watching to another episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. And on today's episode, Nick Tabor and I are going to talk about why adults struggle more than kids in martial arts. It's it's not a it's not a super easy answer. So we're gonna go into a bunch of things. But before we do, if this is your first episode, thank you for joining us. We appreciate you being here. Whistlekickmartial arts radio.com is where you can go to find out.
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So you won't miss anyone. So that's where you can go for that. And if you go to whistlekick.com, you'll find out about all of the other things that we do, whether it's the events that we host all around the country, or maybe you want to purchase a book or a training program or some sparring gear or a uniform or and all of that stuff you can find at whistlekick.com. And
If there's something that you want you don't see there, maybe let us know. You can contact me, andrew at whistlekick dot com. All right. Nick. Why do adults struggle more than kids in martial arts?
Nick Taber (04:55.703)
Yeah.
man, you know what? There are so many answers that I was thinking of, or it could be both. You could flip and say, why do kids struggle more than adults? Because it really is based on the perspective. And one of the things that I thought of at first when it came to it was the fact that our bodies are different.
Andrew Adams (05:11.874)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (05:22.968)
Mm-hmm.
Nick Taber (05:24.013)
And we we recover from injuries slowly. And one of the things that my dad said, you know, when I remember, you know, young days in the dojo, I started thirty five years ago and he told me after forty the Czech engine light comes on. And he was right. By the way, it happens, but there's you know, there's a different perspective when it
You know, I believe, you know, a lot of a lot of kids, unless you're like me that came from a somewhat military esque upbringing, you go and you play. You know, you learn from play and you do this and you get knocked around, you go, Okay, well what happened to your eye? you should have seen that, this happened, they have all those stories and then you have the adults who say, what happened to your eye? yeah I
Andrew Adams (06:17.9)
Mm. Yeah.
Nick Taber (06:18.615)
P2, I'm sorry. and there there's a difference there. I think that the perspective is is that they do struggle 'cause I wonder what's gonna happen. At least that's the first one I came up with.
Andrew Adams (06:33.782)
Yeah. And you know the the the fact that obviously our bodies are built differently differently, the easiest way that that's noticeable is kids are generally way more flexible than adults. Are there adults that are super flexible? Yes, there are. But I think it's safe to say that in general kids are going to be a lot more flexible. So them being able to do head height, you know, kicks.
Nick Taber (06:50.039)
Yes.
Nick Taber (06:53.387)
Right.
Andrew Adams (07:02.752)
And things of that nature, it's just naturally because of their physicality going to become easier for kids than adults. And so a lot of adults struggle with that because they don't have that flexibility. Can they get it? Yes, they can. You can work on it. You can actually go to whistlekick.com. You can get our training program, which is designed specifically for flexibility. But that you're I would agree wholeheartedly, definitely. They that.
Nick Taber (07:25.951)
Yes, good. Yes.
Andrew Adams (07:31.586)
We work and move our bodies differently and part of that also comes with work, family fatigue. It changes how we as adults deal with things and it affects our body for sure.
Nick Taber (07:45.8)
Absolutely. And one of the other things that I thought of and I I called a friend of mine and I asked if I could share this story and he did he did say okay but not to give his name so I'm like, okay, cool. But
I see where a lot of adults will join because their kids are joining. that looks cool. Maybe I can get something out of it. And one of my longtime friends, he's a mortician. And we were learning how like one of the things he was learning at the time was how to place a body in a coffin. And we were also learning at the time was some jujitsu and judo techniques.
of how to wrestle and how to flip a body and how to turn over the shoulder. And he found a way to be able to not flip the cadaver into the you know into the coffin itself, but just to be able to place the body and utilize his whole body to be able to respectfully move everything into place. You know, and then utilize it because the reason why I tell that story
and you I'm only telling about part of it. is that there are connections that are different with adults than kids. Why do kids genuinely join martial arts for fun, something to do, to build confidence? Generally, those are the top three, and to correct issues, but and also to have fun, you know, to have fun with it.
Adults will join and there might not be an absolute clear reason. Now there might be like let's take the disciplinary issue, children, or you know, issues with kids who need to go to be able to overcome something. An adult brain is filled with everything possible that has been over a number of years. I'm 41 years old.
Nick Taber (09:52.894)
I have 41 years of events somewhere in my body and in my brain and that they can, you know, that'll come up or that'll circulate. A six-year-old, seven-year-old has seven years of experience. So the brain is not as used up as much, you know, or not as functioning. So you have the years of baggage within adults.
That they might be trying to find a purpose with it, besides because this same person who said, you know, I could just this is found a way, said, Hey, this is fun, this is great, I'm gonna enjoy myself and find little ways I can use it. It takes longer for them to figure it out. And also if the ki if the kids go away, then you know it's harder for them to stick around itself. I hope that makes sense.
Andrew Adams (10:35.116)
Hmm. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (10:47.042)
Yeah, you know, I think part of it comes down to adults adults bring more fear and self-judgment into class with them. Kid kids, those sorts of things don't often. That's not to say that they don't bother kids, but I would say in general that it's it's less of a you know, there's a lot of less self self-judgment with six and seven or eight, nine, ten-year-olds than there are with adults, right? and I think we
Nick Taber (10:57.107)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Nick Taber (11:04.053)
Right.
Nick Taber (11:13.535)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (11:15.744)
A lot of adults also have a problem with needing to understand everything first. You know, and kids here's a here's a great story, a great example. It's not martial arts, it's actually music related. I, for those listeners that may not know, I am involved with and have been for many years, competitive bagpipe band. So a bagpipe band will come out and play for a judge's
Nick Taber (11:20.621)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (11:43.052)
Then another one will come out and play for judges, and the judges will mark down who wins or whatever. And this story was I was sitting down with one of the North America's leading bagpipe instructors. He is hired all over the world to work with bagpipe bands on how to get better. And he and I were chatting, and he had been hired by a band, not to be named, but an adult band.
Nick Taber (12:04.332)
Wow.
Andrew Adams (12:12.674)
The this band had paid him money to fly to their location, teach them on how to be better. And at lunchtime, he was sitting with the the adults in this band, and they were complaining that every time they go out and compete, there is also a juvenile band. There's a kids' band in the area as well. And the kids' band always beats the adult band. And the adults are getting mad because.
Nick Taber (12:34.391)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (12:41.74)
They were complaining that the kids always win because they're cute. The judges are placing them first because they're cute, but you know, we the adults, we definitely play better. And there was some grumbling that the other reason, like, okay, maybe they're not maybe they're not winning because they're cute, but kids have more time on their hands. They're they're not busy. I've got
Nick Taber (12:50.369)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (13:07.382)
I've got work and I've got family and da-da-da. And kids just have so much more free time to practice and get better. That's why they win. And this instructor looked at them and said, that is absolutely positively not why they beat you every time you go out and compete against them. It's not that they that they have all sorts of time on their hands, because anyone who's who has children in school. I mean, my daughter is in seventh is in eighth grade this year. And when she hit
Sixth grade, the amount of homework she started getting was huge. She does not have a ton of free time to spend learning her instrument. she doesn't learn bagpipes, by the way, she plays flute. That's irrelevant. but he said to them, he said, that's not why the kids beat you every time you go out and compete against them. And they're like, Well, why do you think it is? And he said, The reason they beat you is very easy. And he also teaches a kid's band, a juvenile band.
So he knows, works with kids as well. He said, The reason the kids' band beats you is when their instructor says to them, We're gonna play this tune and we're gonna play it this way. Don't play it this way, do it this way. He said, You know what those kids say to him, say to the instructor when the instructor says, Do it this way? Those kids just look at the instructor and say, Okay, we'll do it that way. They don't question.
Nick Taber (14:34.591)
Right. Right.
Andrew Adams (14:35.829)
what's going on. And I think that carries over, I think, to learning anything. As an adult, we often bring this idea of like I have to understand everything first, or maybe I really know better. When my instructor definitely knows more than I do. And if I just do what he tells me to do, I will learn things a little quicker.
Nick Taber (14:58.229)
I could see your point there, and there's also I can argue the other side of it, because I have kids who do the exact same thing as well. I had a kid for about a year and was one of my most challenging students I ever had. And I would teach him the first kata in my system, which was Il Punse.
Andrew Adams (15:05.005)
Mm.
Nick Taber (15:20.501)
And it's very simple. Two moves forward, four moves back, two moves forward, and you end in a ready stance. You know, and the same in the same motion. And it took him a while to understand why you move backwards, because I had to you know, you'd explain the first two moves or step forward in a front stance or forward stance or whatever your your discipline may call it.
Step forward when another ready stand, a fighting stance, punch. And that's move one, move two, move three, turn to the south, front stance, high block. And he could not understand why do you turn that way when the attacker is in front of you? And it was just I've gotten used to that path myself because I've taught this form for 35 years.
And I've gone in that path, and then you know some will go, Yeah, okay, and then some will turn and say, Well, why does this work? And to that same point as well, the the adults will challenge me in a in a way to say if I if I do things like the what I call the ducks dances or the flying the V slits or whatever you may call it, that well I can't do that because I just had a hip replacement.
Andrew Adams (16:43.896)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Nick Taber (16:45.569)
So it's just because there's an ultimate guard right away of no. You know, right away. And the the emotional baggage as well was a thing that I dug into quite a bit. And I think it also because of ways that adults may enter the path of martial arts, and I look at it like if you picture it like a giant, like it's a giant park.
Andrew Adams (16:49.292)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (16:59.203)
Yeah.
Nick Taber (17:15.713)
There's no one way to get in. You know, there might be gates here and there, but you can come into the park. You know, there's there's really low barriers of entry. It's finding your place in that moment. You know, where I had a gentleman at one point in time, he wanted to join, and he was super gung-ho, but he started putting up barriers right away.
You know, saying, I don't know if I can do this. Well, I can't do this because of that. I can't do this because of that. You name it, I can't kick above above my knees because I have a bad back. And I ended up referring him to friends of mine who did Tai Chi. And I said, Well, maybe a Taekwondo school or a Kenpo school is not right for you, but maybe Chigong could be something that'd be really good that could be at your pace.
Andrew Adams (18:07.15)
Mm.
Nick Taber (18:08.521)
And it was a difficult conversation. And then he found his place in the park. 'Cause I mean, I think also the struggle is as you get older, and especially this gentleman was seventy seven years old. Our first conversation was the fact that his best friend in high school passed away. So his community is getting well smaller and smaller and smaller as he keeps going.
Andrew Adams (18:27.596)
Mm-hmm.
Nick Taber (18:34.835)
And he's looking for that place, but also on our side is we gotta guide them. They wanna be a part of the community so badly. But maybe maybe we're not the this school is not the right community. But maybe martial arts martial arts, yes, I am totally for you being a part of martial arts, but let's see if we can help you find the right place. And it's our opportunity as owners to network.
Andrew Adams (18:58.348)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. You know, going back to the the child that you were talking about that you had, I I I think the difference with kids and adults is you might get more kids who are wanting to ask why. For example, why do you turn this way, not that way? But I find generally, and I'm putting this in air quotes, generally, once you answer that question for a child, they're like, No problem. But you will often find adults who
They might ask the why, but they might not like your answer and decide that they want to do it the other way for whatever reason. And I don't I I just don't get that kids, I don't get the sense that kids do that as much. you know, that that adults have their own opinion as to why it should be better for whatever reason, but within martial arts, my hope is they're there to learn from
Nick Taber (19:34.591)
Yeah.
Nick Taber (19:40.459)
I agree with you. What the
Andrew Adams (19:51.978)
in this case they're gonna learn from me. My hope is they realize I actually do know why we get to do it better. This this is the way to do it, not the way you wanna do it. And I think adults have a harder time of that. You know, the the other thing is
Nick Taber (20:02.414)
Exactly.
Nick Taber (20:06.357)
Long.
Andrew Adams (20:08.767)
It's hard for adults. Though I think one of the hardest things for adults is to be bad at something in public. And you know, making mistakes in public and you know, doing it and looking like it's not right. And kids often don't have that fear as much.
Nick Taber (20:16.981)
Yes. Yes.
Nick Taber (20:27.981)
Right, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think also on that level where the traditional school, you know, kids have also had more recent experience of raising their hands and having the wrong answer. Where adults, no matter where they've been, that's your to your point, right? to your point, and adults may have these people where they they are not wrong. Even if they are wrong, they're not wrong.
Andrew Adams (20:43.113)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Good point.
Andrew Adams (20:57.227)
Yeah, yep.
Nick Taber (20:58.571)
Some degree. So you you have a point there. And it's just where they're getting into. I think sometimes it's difficult with with adults to get into the why. And also other obligations where we talked about earlier, they may have an obligation where they could come into the dojo between 6:30 and 7:30, advance in rank, and then their school their class is now 7:30 to 8:30.
Andrew Adams (21:09.546)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nick Taber (21:26.717)
Or, you know, or other ways and said, Wait, I don't know if I can do that 'cause you know, we have we have other obligations. We have a kid's birthday party, or that's the time I put the kids to bed, or the school plays or something like that. Yeah. Exactly.
Andrew Adams (21:38.263)
Mm-hmm.
Well, and I think k kids can adopt faster. Er no adopt kids kids can adapt faster than adults usually.
Nick Taber (21:49.384)
I agree. Yeah. Wholeheartedly agree with that. Absolutely. I think the there's also a good side to this as well is eventually once you get the person, especially as the adults on track, the more they can they can lead the community. Especially where I I've seen many
Andrew Adams (21:50.231)
You know, they can go with the flow more.
Nick Taber (22:19.179)
many people who are in an adult class and then they start going through. I was in a school where I I was in a school where you tested once a month for your stripes and you know, ascension in ranks was very controlled. And then also was in another school where if you wanted to try for a stripe, you just went and spoke with the sensei or spoke with the senpai.
and then you know test it at will and you can go through belts fairly quickly. I myself went through a few belts in a year, you know, toward towards the end when I was at that school. but I think when you when you have either opportunity, once they get that why and they see where their strengths are and they know why they're there, okay, this is fun, it is exercise.
Andrew Adams (22:50.574)
Mm-hmm.
Nick Taber (23:13.033)
I'm coming in. We both know people who are who have gone into martial arts not for the traditional way. I'm going, you know, I'm going 'cause I want to get healthy. I want to I want to do this or I w I need somewhere because I hate the gym. You know, I've had that plenty of times. This is way better cardio than a treadmill. You know, and do that when they find their ways to get into it.
Andrew Adams (23:19.818)
absolutely.
Andrew Adams (23:23.436)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (23:33.09)
Yeah, absolutely.
Nick Taber (23:41.356)
the better it's gonna be. I also thought about it as adding on to it where people get in on a non-traditional way. So instead of going in through a traditional school, where do you have the pop-up women's self defense classes?
Usually they are usually they're coming in based on recent trauma that has happened and you know, or coming in because a friend of theirs had something or something's going on and they're looking for that quick fix. Okay, I know a few moves, do I feel better? And when I was teaching a couple of women's self-defense classes, I was flat out honest with them.
Is that you're going to learn some things to protect yourself in situations? But my goal is right now is that if you can walk from this building to your car and feel safe and then get to your house and feel okay, then I've done my job. You know, if you want to learn more, we can, but I just up front saying you're not gonna learn everything in one hour. That's not possible.
Andrew Adams (24:38.466)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew Adams (24:46.806)
Yeah. Yeah. No, and I think most people listening will will understand that and get that. I think the other thing with adults and and kids is adults are often stronger, but we are mentally less free. We have a lot more going on and things we have to, you know, be thinking of in general. And it's hard for it's harder, I think, for adults to train themselves to leave all of that stuff at the door.
Nick Taber (24:51.179)
Yeah.
Nick Taber (25:09.997)
No.
Andrew Adams (25:16.958)
And not worry about it. And I think that makes a difference as well. You know, kids kids just have less of that that they have to worry about.
Nick Taber (25:26.291)
absolutely. I mean, I I've had so many people I can remember like we we had to ch one school I was teaching at and it was or you you kids would be like, and there was there was a chunk of months where most of the kids had birthday parties. So everybody line up, you do your thing, you meditate, take your belt off, okay, botto, dismiss. Everybody's on their way.
You come into my party, you're coming to my party, you're coming to my party, you teach the adult class, okay, everybody dismiss. They're heading out the door. Okay, what's for dinner? What do we gotta do? Okay, that okay, that bill is due. Let's do like immediately the attention goes away from the community. And where they're wearing on to the next thing. And I can't say I haven't done that myself. You know, but there is there's a laundry list that's constantly evolving, and I think where it does take.
Andrew Adams (26:01.911)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew Adams (26:13.432)
Sure, sure.
Nick Taber (26:22.009)
longer in traditional time in traditional sense for them to get involved. And for well, they get involved. Let me rephrase that. They get involved, but they get they sink into the system a lot more over time. And especially where they get their ranks and then understand that okay, this my
Celebration is not in the fact that I'm I might be a black belt someday. It's the fact that I gained the next belt. Or that other things have happened. And I see similarities in people I've taught people with disabilities for a very long time. You know, where they say, Okay, I can't do this because I'm having a bad day, or some people who can't raise their hand above their nose.
Andrew Adams (26:54.222)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (27:11.79)
Mm-hmm.
Nick Taber (27:13.077)
Or can I do a high block like this? Well you can do it. Let's just do it really slow. Or let's figure out ways you can get around that. My style of chauss and dough is palatable to that. more about, you know, them finding their own journey. but yeah, the answer's really there.
Andrew Adams (27:30.85)
Yeah. What have we missed? Are there are there aspects that we haven't thought of with with it between adults and kids and adults learning more difficult?
Nick Taber (27:40.042)
I think one of the things that came up here, a quote that came up when I was writing these notes was that adults are still growing. Now you could say kids are growing too, but adults are still here. Kids learn martial arts while they're growing up. Adults learn martial arts and they're still growing.
They're still growing, so there's a lot more they still need to do, but realize there's more to do. You know, I I'm 30 years old, I'm set in my ways. You are absolutely not, because I'm 41 and I'm still not set in my ways. I still need to learn. Martial arts is harder for you know, there's a good question that came up here. Is it truly that martial arts is harder for adults, or is it simply more revealing for adults?
Andrew Adams (28:33.177)
that's interesting. Yeah.
Nick Taber (28:36.257)
That might be another development, another show, but that's another thought to leave on that thought.
Andrew Adams (28:42.476)
Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, Nick, thank you for joining me here. Always a pleasure when we get together, for sure.
Nick Taber (28:50.662)
Absolutely always I will see you at the barber shop.
Andrew Adams (28:53.516)
Yeah, absolutely. We'll we'll be there together getting our shaves together. Viewers or listeners, thank you for joining us. Is there something we missed? Is there another reason why it's maybe harder for adults than it is for children? Or maybe you feel the exact opposite. Maybe we got it completely wrong. Maybe it is easier for adults and and it's harder for kids. If you feel that way, let me know. You can contact me, andrew at whistlekick.com. You can also go to whistlekick martial arts radio.com to find out.
Nick Taber (28:57.484)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (29:21.784)
about this episode and all the other ones. They're all free, by the way. There's not behind a paywall. Every still single episode you can find for free. But the podcast is not free to put on. So if you would like to help support the the podcast and all that we do to help connect, educate, and entertain traditional martial artists of the world, you can do that at patreon.com forward slash whistlekick. And whistlekick.com is where you go to find out about all of the other things that we do. The events, the programs that we have for for offer, the books
merchandise, all of that stuff you can find there, and we would appreciate it if you could go there. And the last thing I'll leave you with is the one of the easiest ways you can help support the show is just to share it with a friend. Send this episode to an adult, send it to a child, have them both listen to it and get their feedback. But then send that feedback to us because we want to know. Yeah. So all right, Nick, you want to try and do this together? All right. Until next time, train hard, smile.
Nick Taber (30:15.582)
Okay.
Andrew Adams (30:20.482)
And have a great day.