Episode 1163 - What Being a Black Belt Really Means: Reality vs Myth
Jeremy and Andrew welcome Gerry back to discuss what being a black belt really means.
What Being a Black Belt Really Means: Reality vs Myth - Episode 1163
SUMMARY
In this conversation, Jeremy and Andrew are joined by past guest of the show Gerry Disanto to discuss the myths and realities of being a black belt in martial arts. They explore common misconceptions, such as the idea that black belts are perfect or that they have mastered all skills. The discussion also delves into the feelings of imposter syndrome that many martial artists experience, the pressures of being an instructor, and the challenges of balancing personal life with martial arts commitments. The speakers emphasize the importance of authenticity, community, and the need for open conversations about these topics. They delve into the complexities of martial arts training, focusing on the myths surrounding black belts, the expectations placed on instructors, and the importance of recognizing individual student efforts. They discuss the impact of imposter syndrome on both instructors and students, the necessity of one-on-one interactions for effective teaching, and the misconceptions about financial success in martial arts. The dialogue emphasizes the need for open conversations about the challenges faced in the martial arts community and the importance of networking among instructors to foster growth and understanding.
TAKEAWAYS
Imposter syndrome is common among martial artists.
Black belts are often seen as perfect, which is unrealistic.
Expectations of black belts can lead to feelings of inadequacy.
Authenticity in teaching builds trust with students.
Running a martial arts school often leads to less personal training time.
Community support is crucial for overcoming challenges in martial arts.
Black belts are not experts in all areas of life.
It's important to admit when you don't know something.
Balancing life and martial arts is a common struggle for instructors.
The pressure to be the best can lead to burnout.
Imposter syndrome affects both instructors and students.
Students often attribute their success to their instructors rather than their own efforts.
Instructors should encourage students to take credit for their achievements.
Sparring can create misconceptions about skill levels among students.
One-on-one interactions are crucial for effective teaching and student progress.
Understanding the 'why' behind techniques enhances teaching effectiveness.
Martial arts instructors should focus on serving their students, not being served.
Owning a martial arts school does not guarantee financial success.
Networking with other instructors can provide valuable insights and support.
Being a black belt does not automatically make someone a great teacher.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:00 The Myths of Black Belts
06:36 Imposter Syndrome in Martial Arts
11:50 Expectations vs. Reality of Black Belts
16:40 The Role of Instructors and Authenticity
20:07 Balancing Life and Martial Arts
23:46 The Pressure of Being a Black Belt
25:20 Imposter Syndrome and Student Expectations
26:46 The Impact of Martial Arts Training
27:39 The Reality of Sparring and Performance
29:53 Instructor-Student Dynamics
31:35 The Importance of One-on-One Interaction
33:01 Understanding the 'Why' in Teaching
34:42 Service Orientation in Martial Arts
37:38 The Myth of Financial Success in Martial Arts
39:41 Networking Among Martial Arts Instructors
43:41 The Fallacy of the All-Knowing Instructor
47:00 Teaching vs. Doing in Martial Arts
49:20 Addressing Myths and Realities of Black Belts
51:42 The Importance of Open Conversations
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy (03:33.118)
Hey, what's going on, everybody? Welcome or welcome back to another episode of Whistlekick Martial Art Radio. And on today's show, we're going to talk about the myths versus the reality of being a black belt. Now, on today's episode, I'm joined, as I often am, by my great friend Andrew Adams. Andrew, thanks for being here. But today I'm also joined by Jerry DeSanto, who, Jerry, this was your topic idea. Thank you for.
Andrew Adams (03:53.744)
A
Jeremy (04:02.92)
reaching out and pitching this. And to those of you out there, if you've got a great topic idea, you don't have to come on the show, but maybe you would. We used to do more of that and I would like to get back to it. So those of you out there, you want to come on and talk through something? Let's do it. If you're new, a couple things to keep in mind. Whistlekick Martialarts radio.com is the place to go for transcripts and links and all the stuff that we might talk about today. It's also the place to sign up for the newsletter so you get every
A single episode emailed to you audio and video versions so you never miss an episode.
Andrew, you and you and Jerry were talking a little bit before I came on. Maybe maybe you want to introduce him a bit more than I did.
Andrew Adams (04:50.365)
Sure, sure. So for those listeners that may or viewers that that didn't know, Jerry came on the epis on the show for an interview a few months ago. We had a great chat and really connected really well. And he wrote to me recently and said, Hey, I'd really love to do an episode on this topic of of of you know, have w having a black belt and the myths versus reality, which is something that we've we've talked a little bit about here or there, we being whistlekick.
But I th I said, yeah, this is a great great idea, a great topic to discuss. And so we're I'm psyched to have you back, Jerry.
Gerry (05:28.742)
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
So
Jeremy (05:33.566)
What episode number was that? Do you remember?
Andrew Adams (05:36.12)
Jerry, do you remember your episode number?
Jeremy (05:37.814)
I'm looking I'm looking it up. Eleven thirty six.
Gerry (05:38.039)
my god, no. Sorry.
Andrew Adams (05:42.405)
Eleven thirty six. All right.
Gerry (05:44.551)
All right, I'll take that. I believe you. Okay, good. So you d start us off, Andrew, go ahead.
Jeremy (05:48.054)
I believe Google, so
Andrew Adams (05:54.59)
So yeah, so you know, we Jeremy and I did an episode recently about black belts and I'm I'm wondering if that had any impetus for you to submit your idea.
Gerry (06:08.794)
You know what? I did not no, no, it didn't, but I did think that I just had a I had a student come up to me during the time I was thinking of topics, and he said, I feel like an imposter. I'm like, what do you mean? He so they suffer from imposter syndrome. And they're like, Well, I have this black belt. Where do I go from here? What does this mean? And I'm like, That is a great topic. And that's what that was the
the hue for me to say, Hey, Andrew, have you ever thought of this as a topic? And it's something that I think a lot of black belts go through but then but they keep it in themselves. And if there's other people that are that have their black belts and are going through this, I think that they need to know that they're not alone.
Andrew Adams (06:44.411)
Hmm.
Andrew Adams (06:56.775)
Yeah, I I think the imposter syndrome feeling happens a lot. I certainly have had it, you know, Jeremy, you and I have talked about it. It's it's it's pretty common, yeah.
Jeremy (07:07.708)
I I would venture that all martial artists have imposter syndrome, especially as they progress in rank. But we handle it differently. Some of us
Gerry (07:13.381)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (07:21.675)
Double down on our training. Some of us become bullies. Some of us quit.
Gerry (07:30.094)
Mm-hmm.
And I think that all those things are natural reactions to that feeling of inadequacy. and we're gonna be putting up like I have a post that's coming out on my social media. Imposter syndrome, the look for, and then the imposter syndromes, the cure. And the whole idea behind it is we all suffer from it in martial arts, in
When I teach Brazilian jujitsu at clubs, they all suffer from it because you're a fifty-year-old black belt fighting a twenty-five-year-old wrestler who's just jacked and strong and can go for hours. And you're just like going, my God, I'm getting killed. So they suffer from imposter syndrome from that. When really it's just a question of athleticism, youth, strength, age. And that ends up causing them to question their abilities when really their abilities are there. It's just
You're a lot older. You've gotten older, as we all are. And age, father time is unbeatable in this idea. So I I do see it as I travel around doing seminars and talking to people and saying, How do you overcome that? And to Jeremy's point, some people double down on their training. They get better. Some people, to your point, Andrew, they get bully, they become bullies. Do it my way, or you're out.
Andrew Adams (08:43.239)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (08:53.105)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (08:56.224)
A lot of there's there's some problems there. So I think we could talk about it openly and then maybe shed some light on that. You're not the you're not alone on this.
Andrew Adams (09:06.09)
Yeah.
Jeremy (09:06.231)
Well let's let's dig into some of these the the realities, the myths, because if we're talking about feeling like an imposter, I would imagine in every single case, that's because someone has a different expectation of how they'd feel. I earn my black belt and I'm suddenly gonna feel like I know everything. I'm gonna reach this rank and suddenly I'm gonna feel like I can take on the world. And it's I think it's when those expectations are unmet that
Andrew Adams (09:25.426)
Yeah.
Jeremy (09:36.688)
we start to have these worrisome feelings that disconnect us from these myths. So wh why don't why don't you start us off, Jerry?
Gerry (09:48.187)
yeah, first off, one of the myths that I always I thought that was that I faced when I opened up my own club was that you know, I remember one of my instructors saying, Well, when you become a martial arts black belt, you've now mastered the basics. Now you're ready to train. And this was in karate. He says, Now you're ready train and learn the art. So you've just mastered the basics. You're not the other myth is, well, as soon as you receive your black belt, you know, you must be a deadly weapon.
Jeremy (10:18.068)
Mm.
Gerry (10:18.802)
Okay. Or I've had do you register your hands because you're a black belt? What do you mean? Because they're deadly weapons? I'm like, no. Okay, I know you have a gun show going on, but anyways, Okay, that's just for any of the you guys from you know Ron Burgundy. gotta throw Ron Burgundy in there. And then the other thing is when you guys open up a martial arts studio, a lot of people are like, Well, I'm gonna have more time to train.
Andrew Adams (10:38.367)
Yeah.
Jeremy (10:42.08)
That's right. That's right.
Gerry (10:49.063)
I gonna work on the stuff I wanna work on. Jerry, go ahead, go ahead, explain that, because your that deep breath says lots.
Jeremy (10:50.802)
man. Yeah. okay. So a lot of you out there know that part of part of what I do professionally is work with martial arts school owners and and help them with their schools. And I would say the primary reason every single person opens a school is they say, Okay, I love martial arts, I love teaching, I love training.
And then they do some math. They're like, Okay, if I can get
forty or fifty or eighty or whatever people a month to pay me whatever amount, I can quit my job.
And I'm only going to teach classes, you know, like three or four hours a day. So I can spend like four hours a day training on my own. And they think they found the cheat code to life. All of them fe all of them think this.
Gerry (11:44.616)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (11:45.947)
Yeah.
Gerry (11:51.08)
Uh-huh.
Jeremy (11:56.126)
And then they get going they're like, man
I gotta I gotta do ads. I gotta talk to Jeremy.
I gotta do this, that, and the other. I gotta clean the floor. I gotta call the landlord because the toilet's broken again.
And what tends to end up happening is they're training less unless they count their time in the front of the room. They are training far less than they were before they opened their school.
Gerry (12:27.761)
And Jeremy, you've probably seen this too, where like as soon as you start having a school or trying to develop a school, the hours that you have to put in for daily planning, callbacks, free trials, starter programs, collecting equipment, all that stuff goes unseen. So they're just saying, well, he just appeared, so he must be ready to train. No, there's a lot of stuff that goes into the background that martial arts don't know about.
Jeremy (12:58.676)
Yeah, it it's w one one of my hopes, one of the things we're talking about internally is trying to help
Upcoming martial arts school owners be more prepared, have have more eyes wider open on the realities of some of these things. We've got some courses that we're putting together and stuff like that. Because it it's about six months. It's about six months in that people go, okay, this isn't just temporary because I opened the school.
Gerry (13:33.603)
And also, let's also go back one step and say, okay, you're opening a school. Who knows about you?
Right. You're competing with everybody else who's been established and that's where they're gonna go. What makes you different from everyone else? Well then you have to spend time advertising. You gotta go do demos, you gotta do all that stuff. So actually you're actually training less, but you're out there more.
Jeremy (13:56.086)
Yeah. I I want to go back to the the dichotomy that you you started with the idea of mastering the basics versus being the deadly person. And you know, Andrew, this is something that you and I have talked about a lot, is is you know, the discrepancy in what what a black belt is from school to school. But I think it's far more universal that it's about the fundamentals than it is about combat skill.
Gerry (14:07.151)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (14:24.562)
Yeah. And I and I think the other, you know, myth which kind of flows into this is that, you know, and it's within your school, but once you receive your black belt, you must not make any more mistakes, right? You're you're you're perfect. Like you've you've got it. Even if we're saying you've mastered the basics, that well, that implies you can't ever make mistakes on basics. Well, we're human. You know, we wake up t you know, we're tired from
You know, w working with, you know, we maybe we've got multiple kids at home and we haven't s been sleeping well because we have a newborn, we go to class and we're doing basics and you make a mistake. Well, how dare you because you're a black belt. You shouldn't make mistakes, right? I think that's a com Yeah, exactly. I think that's a a myth that as well that we can kind of d dive into and I think it it dovetails really well into what we just were discussing, you know?
Jeremy (15:03.466)
Black belts are perfect.
Gerry (15:15.929)
I also think that go ahead. I was gonna say that to your point, once you become a black belt, people start seeing you as a center of all knowledge. So you may be a karate black belt, but yet what do you know about kung fu? What do you know about weapons? What do you know about grappling? What do you know about combat combatives? And that's not the case too.
Jeremy (15:16.896)
Chair go ahead.
Jeremy (15:26.966)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (15:39.892)
Here here here's one. What do you know about street self-defense?
There's a hot button topic of late.
Gerry (15:50.103)
You know what? I think Andrew and I talked about this in our our one eleven thirty-six episode on whistle kick, the idea of self-defense versus third person self-defense. Where let's take it one step further. Jeremy, if you're if you're going out with your daughter or your wife and someone comes up to you, do you know how to react with someone to defend somebody else?
That's with you as opposed to defending yourself.
Jeremy (16:23.318)
It's a whole different subject.
Gerry (16:27.511)
So self self defense is big. Go ahead.
Jeremy (16:27.53)
Yeah. Yeah, the i yeah. I I I I think I think the
The frustration with this myth for so many is that a lot of martial artists, because they have this imposter syndrome, because they think they're supposed to have the answers to everything, when someone poses a question that they don't have a good answer to, they're unwilling to admit that. You know.
Gerry (16:56.484)
huh.
Andrew Adams (16:59.548)
Because they feel like they should know it.
Jeremy (17:01.054)
I could, I, yeah, I could, you know, I could, I could make up an answer. I could say face with this person who's probably my student or someone who's asking this question in a complimentary way. But does that really do them the best service? No.
Gerry (17:11.126)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (17:22.036)
And to your point, you know what happens? You know what happens with that is that you put that thing down because you don't know enough. Ignorance is easier just to put things away and make them not as important as they are. We we'd rather shove them down and insult them than actually address that we don't know anything.
Jeremy (17:41.884)
And you know, this is one of my favorite things about what we've built with Whistlekick is we have such an amazing community. you know, and I know people's skills and personalities more from the events, but you know, also from from interviews. And if I don't know something, I don't I don't even have to try to make it up. I am one degree of separation from a world class person at that thing, and I ask them.
Gerry (18:01.983)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (18:09.798)
you know, what's the Krav Maga solution to this? Hold on, I got four people I can ask. Who real or, you know, I can I can ask I can ask the person who's kind of in charge of Krav Maga now, you know, reach out to you. I can like, you know, there's a there's a taekwondo question. Well, you know, I got we got like like what half a dozen ninth and tenth dons who've been on the show and you know.
Gerry (18:15.176)
huh.
Gerry (18:37.683)
Yes.
Jeremy (18:39.912)
And I also get to learn in that process. Right? I think the the not not that this is really part of our outline, but maybe it should be. Diffusing the imposter syndrome around some of this is comes from from recognizing that all the answers come from training. Somebody asks me a question I don't have the answer to. Cool. There's a place that I'm still a white belt, probably. I can learn more.
Gerry (19:00.381)
Yes.
Andrew Adams (19:05.384)
Yeah. I I was gonna say as an instructor, one of the the best phrases that you can learn is I don't know.
Gerry (19:07.507)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (19:16.616)
And I think that instructors all too often, because they have that imposter syndrome, they don't want to seem like they don't know the answer. And I personally don't think there's anything wrong with an instructor getting a question and saying, I don't know the answer to that question. I let's find out. Let's I'll do some research. I'll talk to somebody. I'll here's my educated guess. I've done that a lot. Like,
Gerry (19:33.427)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (19:40.968)
Well, what would well why would you do it this way and not this way? And I would well, you know, here's why I you know, in this is what my instructor taught me, but let's discuss it. Let's figure it out, right? There's nothing there's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.
Gerry (19:54.054)
I think your students will appreciate your authenticity in those because one thing we can't fake is people can smell bullshit a mile away. The more authentic we are with our students and honest, I think the better we are. Like there are techniques I teach in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu where I just sit back and say, This does not work for me, but you got long legs. You could do this. You got like in striking.
I can't jab well because I got short arms, but you have a long reach, so use that to your advantage.
Jeremy (20:29.29)
I I think when you when instructors shift from this belief that your job is to cram knowledge into their brain, but or but instead your job is to create an environment in which they learn, I think some of that falls away. I can't make anyone learn. And the recognition that I could not force anyone to learn is the best thing that ever happened to me as an instructor. Because now my job is how do I help you learn?
And so now it's not about my knowledge.
Gerry (21:01.905)
I don't know if you guys went through this. I know I did this when I was when I opened my school. I made my black belt achievement so difficult because and this is part of feeling a little bit inadequate that I wanted you to be so great that receiving a black belt from me would have been the greatest thing ever. And then dealing with like talking to the fifth, sixth, seventh, Dan people, they're like, Jerry, don't make black belt impossible.
Make it possible. And so therefore you can scale it to second degree, third degree, et cetera, and so forth. And I was not thinking that way. I was thinking again, that idea that I'm going to make it so tough. You're going to be so dangerous. You're so special. And what that did is actually eliminate my student base, which Jeremy, you could talk to, and how people have probably made that mistake a lot of times, to as opposed to actually making my s my community better. And I'm talking community, not business. I'm talking community.
Andrew Adams (22:02.554)
Mm. So you were trying to combat that imposter syndrome in them. Yeah.
Jeremy (22:10.518)
I wanna make sure that nobody ever questions my students' rank. I wanna make sure that they have the best possible chance of defending themselves and others on the street. I wanna make sure that they've got everything I ever wanted. It comes from a good place.
Gerry (22:23.055)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (22:26.688)
But it's generally too much. It's a, it's a when we put it together that way, it comes from having been training and teaching for a long time. Doesn't come from the other direction. And we need to under be able to understand it from the other direction. Otherwise, imposter syndrome. Otherwise, I don't have ten hours a week to train. So I'm never gonna get there.
Gerry (22:42.959)
Yeah. Yeah. And and a little bit
Gerry (22:51.074)
Right. And ego, that like producing something that's that good. I did that, you know? Almost like when when you see on Instagram the mothers take credit for their child's soccer go, I did that. No, you did it. The kids get that.
Andrew Adams (23:07.049)
Mm.
Jeremy (23:08.114)
We I see that we look at what we did. You you cut up the orange slices. Sit down.
Gerry (23:09.922)
Yeah, yes.
Andrew Adams (23:16.02)
They drove to practice too.
Gerry (23:19.596)
I don't know.
Jeremy (23:19.988)
I'm not saying that it's not important. I'm not saying it's not a necessary precursor step.
the kid have their accomplishment.
Jeremy (23:33.684)
I'm probably gonna get some hate for that one, but you know what? I couldn't help it. It's
Gerry (23:33.812)
I I think Yeah, you are. That that's that's a that was a good one. another another myth that I think that black belts and even school owners have is they're trying to manage their life while while running school. And Jeremy, you talk about this, and so can you, Andrew. When you guys are do running to school, I found that trying to divide up your time between family events, birthdays and stuff like that, especially in the middle of the week.
Jeremy (23:39.509)
Yeah.
Gerry (24:03.575)
People suffer from that. And then it becomes this whole issue of like you go s maybe you go to your your family event and you you leave someone in charge of your school. Are you really present at the event of your family because you're worried about what's happening to school?
I remember I would go to events and I'd be thinking, Okay, I wonder how class went, I wonder how class went. I hope they text me. Hope if there's any problems. my god, I don't want the mother to call me, da da da da da. All those things. So yeah, you guys
Jeremy (24:32.966)
Or how many people how many people refuse to take that time off because no, no, no one can teach as well as I can, so I can't take this time off.
Andrew Adams (24:43.422)
That's where I was that's where I was gonna go. The people don't don't take the time.
Jeremy (24:44.926)
Student, you know, they're they're paying for me to teach them or their kids. They're not paying for my assistant or a friend of mine the next town.
And while, yes, that logic is that that statement is true, two things happen. Number one, you create a culture where nobody's ever comfortable taking time off from training, which means you are attritioning off people who want to live a balanced life with martial arts as part of it. And then secondly, and I've seen this far too many times, when I work with schools, the number one thing
Gerry (25:07.627)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (25:14.923)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (25:23.155)
Limiting the growth of that school is qualified and available assistant instructors. And if they never get a chance in the front of the room, how are they going to get better? If they can't be in the front of the room because they're not good enough, how are they going to improve? How is that not completely counter to everything we do when we train?
Gerry (25:28.874)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (25:46.9)
You can't do that for You don't know it well enough yet. You haven't taught it to me, exactly.
That's not gonna work out.
Andrew Adams (25:56.136)
Yeah. And I think
Gerry (25:56.34)
So do you think that's ego? Sorry, yeah, starting around. Fair?
Jeremy (25:59.358)
It's fear. It's it's fear. Yeah. Yeah. People it's it is it is the fear that the martial arts school will be seen as less than because the person doing the teaching that day is not as good as you. It can also be this is the only place I have in my life where I feel good at something. And so if I if if I'm replaceable, then my identity collapses.
Andrew Adams (26:21.832)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (26:22.078)
Yeah.
Gerry (26:26.708)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (26:28.092)
And I think it also stems a little bit to the imposter syndrome that we as the martial arts teacher are expected to know it all and do it all, which is, as we know, unrealistic, but that is a pressure that a lot of school owners put on themselves.
Gerry (26:46.824)
Uh-huh.
And I also think
Jeremy (26:49.782)
I'm the black belt, I'm the highest rank, I have to be the best at life.
Andrew Adams (26:53.68)
Mm. That's the myth right there.
Gerry (26:56.945)
Yeah. How many times have and I I say this honestly, because I'm a black belt, I I have also a degree in child psychology. Because I'm a black belt, I am also an expert in marital relationships. Because I'm a black belt, I'm also a personal trainer. Because I'm a black belt, I'm also able to tell you about the education system in every part of the country. Because I'm a black belt, I'm able to give you marital life advice and be a life coach.
Jeremy (27:27.625)
I I don't know, I am not an expert any of those things, but I can play one on T V. That's as far as I get.
Andrew Adams (27:34.226)
Ha ha ha.
Jeremy (27:36.564)
Right. I I can I can pretend to be a child psychologist. I can tell you why your kid's messing up most of the time. It's you.
Gerry (27:41.499)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (27:50.195)
You know, I I would I would jump in as well and and say that Yeah, no, that's good. I I think as well part of the issue I think in that regard is that it's it's our students who expect that that you know they expect that you have a black belt, so you must be good in everything. And Jeremy, we did an episode on this that that just because you have a black belt does not mean you are an an expert car mechanic.
Jeremy (27:53.108)
I figured that one was gonna land better. Man, man, I I pe I peaked with my orange slices, Joe.
Gerry (27:55.367)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (28:20.08)
It doesn't mean like you said, Jerry, you're you're a a a therapist and can deal with marital stuff, but our students tend to think that. And I think part of that stems from us wanting not want those of us that have imposter syndrome wanting to be able to do it all, and that gets pushed onto our students thinking that we can do it all, and it's a vicious cycle.
Gerry (28:20.231)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (28:51.082)
I think there's another piece there in that for most of us, especially if we start training as adults, because I tend to see it with people who start their training as adults.
Jeremy (29:03.411)
Six to twelve months in, their entire life has improved because of their training. And they ascribe all of that to their instructor rather than recognizing it is the martial arts training that led them to additional skills that they developed on their own from it as a result of training. Yes, the instructor is the maybe the precursor, but they're not the ones, you know, I lost weight because I was training.
My martial arts instructor is not a personal trainer.
Gerry (29:36.133)
Uh-huh.
Jeremy (29:38.698)
The results might be there, the symptoms might be there, but the causation I think is often misapplied.
Gerry (29:45.796)
And I think also that we're so quick as instructors to sometimes take credit for that and not say, you know, you're the reason why I did it. No, no, you put in the work. You, the student, put in the work. I did, I just ran the class, but you actually showed up, which is a important consistency, to effort, and you did that. And you should get the credit for what you did.
Jeremy (30:15.062)
You know, one of the ones you have down here in your outline, Jerry, is is always being ready to to fight. And I you don't have it here, but I would add successfully that a a bla any black belt is ready to take on any physical violent threat at any time, no matter the situation or the scope.
Gerry (30:25.924)
Gerry (30:34.756)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (30:34.876)
Mm.
Gerry (30:39.81)
Yeah, I I I say that because in the Brazilian jiu-jitsu world, we spar all the time. And then when we cross over with other clubs and we do like crossover roles and stuff, you're fighting other students at different ranks or other black belts at different ranks. And you know, they're seeing that that black belt as, my God, you are deadly. If I roll against you, I just want to survive. And if I survive, my God, I did it.
I must be close. And that's usually not the case because of the fact that you know, again, as every day that you're on the mats, get people could take time off because they're injured, because they're sick, because they're you know, plethora of things. A lot of instructors don't take time off. So their injuries and their illnesses compound with, you know, more time on the mat, not taking care of themselves, not putting the time in to rest and heal.
So really, like every day you wake up, sometimes you may be waking up sore, and then all of a sudden you're going to the the studio and then you have to, you know, maybe it's a spar session that day. So you're sparring and you're not feeling up and maybe this the student gets a little bit better of you that day. And it's just whatever. it shouldn't take it as a slight against you. I also sometimes go to other clubs and I roll, but I'm trying to work on something.
So I put myself in a compromised position so I could work a system. They're thinking, my God, I got you. And I'm like, no, I'm working on something. It's not there yet. It's not perfect. I need to do this. If you're sparring, I'm just trying to work just on like say my my counterfront kick. I'm working on that. I'm working on that. you beat it. Yeah. But I'm working on that's all I'm gonna be doing this whole session. But you can't articulate to your students because they're like, I I'm gonna beat you. I I know it's coming. You you're just trying to work some stuff out sometimes too.
So that always ready to fight successfully, it it's it's a it's a crutch. It's a big weight on your head, especially not just as a black boat, just even as you know, an instructor too.
Jeremy (32:53.87)
You know what that turns into? And it a culture that supports that turns into the instructors not training with their students.
Because then because if if you don't train, then you're not fallible. If you don't do the thing, you can't be seen as being imperfect at the thing. And we've talked about this a lot over the years that there is nothing, and and I I will, I will go to my deathbed on this one. There is nothing you can do as an instructor to better support your students than to show them that you are imperfect and working on things.
Gerry (33:07.264)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (33:11.304)
Yeah.
Gerry (33:30.431)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (33:31.099)
Amen. Yep.
Jeremy (33:32.106)
Nothing. And if you are unwilling to be imperfect in front of your students, you value your ego and your reputation more than you value their progress. And you do not belong in the front of
Gerry (33:47.827)
Yeah. I also think that if you're not working with your students or aspiring with your students or doing whatever with your students, you can like a lot of corrections happen in the middle of those exchanges. Do you follow what I mean? So like let's say I'm doing something and they're dropping their right hand on a on a on a cross or they throw a hook and they drop the right hand and I'm able to catch them. That's a time when I could coach them. Those are great coaching and teaching opportunities. And people are missing those as far as I'm concerned.
Jeremy (33:58.836)
Hmm. Yeah.
Gerry (34:18.064)
And and even if so that's a coaching opportunity. Another coaching opportunity is, hey, you're doing this really well. Like you're you you're doing this really well. Cause keep that up. That's a positive for you. So keep doing that stuff. And I think those are things we gotta also look at.
Jeremy (34:35.03)
It's when we're teaching a class, we don't get a lot of opportunities to work with people one-on-one and to help them progress as individuals. If you ever if if you you know, instructors, have give somebody a notebook. Have them watch your class, watch your hour class, your hour and a half long class. Have them time the amount of t individual time you get to spend with each of your students. It's very little, but there's nothing more effective.
Gerry (34:42.759)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (34:59.869)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (35:04.372)
than if you're working with them one on one in a let's call it a mini, you know, thirty, sixty second seminar style round, nothing's gonna improve them more than that, especially as they progress.
Gerry (35:16.053)
huh.
Gerry (35:20.07)
I had a parent tell me the five minutes I spent with their child in class, that child would go back and brag about it to their parents and their grandparents and all the friends. And it's it's one of those things that I think it again, as school owners, we're here to service, not to be served. We are in service of other people. And
Andrew Adams (35:45.844)
Hmm.
Gerry (35:49.454)
I that gets sometimes lost, if that makes sense.
Jeremy (35:54.517)
It does.
Jeremy (35:57.92)
Yeah, it it's
Gerry (35:58.006)
another Go ahead, Chair.
Jeremy (36:01.018)
I I I just gonna connect to our our most favor our favorite question on this show, which is why, right? connecting connecting why you're teaching to how you teach is really important. Why you train should dictate how you train. And if you if you haven't asked yourself for a while, why am I teaching, it's probably overdue.
Gerry (36:10.972)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (36:15.548)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (36:24.55)
You know, that actually hits home right now because I got an instructor that's struggling, that I know of. She knows her basics, but she doesn't know she's not able to relate that question of why, if that makes sense. And why would you why would you why are we doing this? In what context or in what situation should we be doing this and and make it more relevant or street applicable or situational awareness?
that you use this technique and and that's where she's struggling with it. So I have to get her back to thinking, why?
Andrew Adams (37:01.012)
It's important question, for sure.
Jeremy (37:02.546)
It it is the question. It is the question. Jerry, I cut you off before we went took that tangent. Where where were you headed?
Gerry (37:11.002)
I was gonna say that a lot of times when we I think what we're talking about, we're talking about in service of people. the idea of that if you're a black girl, you've achieved it and you decide to open up your own school, we have to remember that we're we're having people pay for our time and our knowledge. So if we're not giving them time and knowledge and the appropriate material, they're gonna go somewhere else.
Jeremy (37:18.582)
Mm.
Gerry (37:42.308)
You know, like like you could change barbers and there's nothing wrong with it. You could change, you know, fast food places you like to eat. There's nothing wrong with that. No it's no one no one ever slights you for that.
Jeremy (37:52.342)
It's an in it's an interesting analogy given the three of us, but you know, keep going.
Gerry (37:57.048)
And then what the what you mean the fast food? Hey, I I just did this and it feels great by the way. But having said that, yeah, but having said that, it's one of those things that we will never criticize someone for going to a different barber or different restaurant to have food. But if you leave my studio, my god, you're dead to me. And
Andrew Adams (38:01.96)
No, the barber.
Jeremy (38:02.826)
The barber.
Jeremy (38:09.12)
It's I'm overdue.
Gerry (38:25.441)
And we've all done that because it's a slight against you. And that's that part of that imposter syndrome that they went somewhere else where they're happier. It's like breaking up with a relationship. You know? All of a sudden what, you're somewhere else? You're happier without me?
Jeremy (38:39.13)
It it's there's there's a there's a there's a great Seinfeld episode, 'cause they're all great where
Jeremy (38:52.608)
There's a there's a gentleman who opens a restaurant and he serves every kind of food and no one comes in. Yes. No one comes in because they don't know how to contextualize it. Because the idea of a restaurant that serves every kind of food is insane. A martial arts school that thinks they can provide the appropriate martial arts education to all people is equally insane because the reasons that we train are different. And if you do not have enough of a dialed-in culture.
Gerry (38:57.955)
that's the Abu one. Yeah.
Gerry (39:07.639)
Uh-huh.
Jeremy (39:22.261)
that it is the right is the right if your culture is not such that you have the wrong training environment for some people, you do not have the right training environment for others.
Gerry (39:36.834)
So I think that also if we could take it one step further, if we could all of a sudden, if you're in a healthy place, and it could also be you, the instructor, that could offset your students. Because you're not in a good place, you don't emulate that against that, again, that authenticity of believing in yourself, projecting that belief and kindness to others, can also affect how you deal with your students. But also as a black belt, you should be going through that journey of.
You know, that old saying that you don't wear a black belt, you become a black belt. You know, those trials and tribulations develop you into the person you are, which should be a better person than you were. I think that's one of those things we're we're not we don't talk enough about either.
Jeremy (40:27.126)
How about the myth that because you're a business owner, you have money?
Gerry (40:32.764)
I I think I have that down.
Jeremy (40:33.216)
Well you own you own the school. You must be you must be loaded.
Andrew Adams (40:35.583)
Right.
Gerry (40:38.974)
Andrew, you want to talk about that one?
Andrew Adams (40:39.443)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I don't know that it's necessarily a black belt myth, but it definitely is a myth that, you know, you own a business, you must have lots of money. I mean, sure, I own a business. I'm self employed, so I have my own business. but I'm self employed teaching drums for a living. the the joke that my wife and I make sometimes is that I
we got married so that I could have health insurance and she got she married me so she could never retire 'cause it's just not gonna happen, right? it is a it's a silly myth, but it's out there for sure.
Gerry (41:18.996)
I just recently sold my business, my my school, and and and I'm still consulting with other schools here and there, just just on technique and stuff like that and and curriculum. So by doing that, I'm seeing I still train, I still teach at that place, I've consult at that place, but I also work with other instructors. The whole idea behind it is I'm seeing right now what
other instructors are going through because when you're in your own little world, you're kind of in your own little world. You see your little box. And Jeremy, you could talk about this. When you're dealing with other instructors, it's a nice dialogue sometimes of like, hey, what are you doing? What are you doing? And it's a great way to like, you know, there's some things like we we miss. Like we used to do this stuff, but now we don't do it anymore because we forgot about it. Those are some things we miss too.
Jeremy (42:12.71)
The the Andrew, you mentioned at the top about where was it the last episode we recorded? about being an island. Was that this one? Or is that one? Okay, sorry. Okay, my my apologies to the audience. but just to to summarize
Andrew Adams (42:23.679)
Hm. No, it was that's the episode that comes out next week.
Andrew Adams (42:31.603)
No, actually it was last week's it was last week's episode on Bruce Lee. Yeah.
Jeremy (42:41.128)
A martial artist who is unattached to other martial artists is going to struggle. A martial arts school that is an island that is completely unattached to other martial arts schools is also going to struggle in different ways for different reasons. And Jerry, I think that that's the one of the best things that a martial arts school owner can do is connect with other martial arts school owners and compare notes. Because what we do, the the
Gerry (42:57.715)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (43:07.283)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (43:11.083)
What we don't do is tell our students, okay, I'm gonna teach you all the ways that you can throw this punch, and I'm not gonna tell you which way is right. And you're gonna go figure it out, and you're gonna break your thumb and your hands, and you're gonna come in, and over time you're gonna learn what not to do. No, we we we give them some, you know, we narrow it up for them a little bit at least. But if we don't connect with other businesses of in the martial arts world, we're doing exactly that.
We're guessing, but we usually get it wrong. And you know, allow me to put in a plug for whistlekick events that that's a a big part of the value of of why school owners will attend these events. It's it's the networking, it's to connect with other people who are like-minded and pick their brains. And I I would I would venture that you are hard pressed to not make your money back since most of our events are free.
To train.
Andrew Adams (44:12.351)
Yeah, I I would agree with that. you know, I I think the the biggest thing to come out of the free training day and Marshall Summit events that we host is those connections that people make. That people show up not necessarily knowing other people and then they leave with brand you know, with great friends, having just met them that weekend.
Gerry (44:27.899)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (44:39.845)
I also think that when you get a chance to talk to other black belts, you what that also does is it gives you a chance to train with other black belts. And I don't mean like you have to go hardcore, but you could actually like bounce ideas off each other. Like, hey, I do this at my kids' class, I need some more extra drills, some fun drills. Can you give me s what do you guys do? That simple dialogue.
Jeremy (44:53.02)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (45:01.374)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (45:01.719)
How do you handle this? My favorite one here's here's the most important one. And when you can build friendships, really deep friendships, that you can say, how how do you how do you handle this really difficult situation? I've got this parent that's doing this. I've got this student that's interacting with this other student inappropriately. How do you handle things like that?
Gerry (45:10.295)
Yes.
Jeremy (45:28.299)
Right? Because when you have really dicey stuff, and it's gonna happen because we are in a an industry that involves physical contact. There's gonna be dicey stuff. It is inevitable given enough time. You can go into those situations a lot more confidently when you have three, five, twenty-seven friends that you've bounced it off.
Gerry (45:48.558)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (45:52.192)
To go back to the prior myth, you don't have to have all of the solutions. Because you don't have all the solutions. Because having a black belt doesn't mean you have all the solutions.
Gerry (46:00.558)
Right. Right. And also that
Andrew Adams (46:03.295)
Great way to bring it great way to bring it full circle, Jeremy.
Gerry (46:06.914)
And also like we also have to, again, that idea that you have to be the center of all knowledge, you know, that's that's a tough one. That's a tough one that you have to s do introspectively to be able to like look at yourself and say, I don't have to be that. But but having said that, if you want to be that person, then you need to go out and train other arts, other systems. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Jeremy (46:41.686)
Absolutely. Hmm. Well
Gerry (46:43.245)
And I said to Andrew, I think in a previous podcast, I really respect Datu Tim because of the fact that he always puts on a white belt and he goes out and trains different arts. So I think that's and he's a ninth degree black belt in our niece, but he's my jiu jitsu student.
Jeremy (46:50.026)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (47:03.743)
Yeah. Datu Tim Hartman, for those that wanna know more, has been on the show and you can listen to his episode number one two.
Jeremy (47:12.767)
One two.
Gerry (47:16.736)
Man, that's really early.
Jeremy (47:17.27)
Goes back. Yeah. Yeah. I was I was lucky to meet meet Tim pretty early on.
Gerry (47:24.566)
Now did you guys have hair then?
Jeremy (47:28.501)
No. No, I haven't had hair in a long time.
Jeremy (47:33.994)
I mean th I got this. I g I I to it it fell out of the top and I caught it on my chin and now it's growing back up. That's that's what I think's happening.
Gerry (47:34.004)
It was that that many years.
Gerry (47:39.462)
okay. Or did or did you just pull on the chin that just shrunk that down? Yeah.
Jeremy (47:48.438)
Working
Gerry (47:49.334)
Yeah. I also think, Jeremy, that if you're working with other school owners, you probably have more examples of how they feel like that imposter syndrome, that myth of like, I'm a black belt, I should know this stuff, but you really aren't. Like, especially when it comes to I'm gonna use school business as a launching point for this discussion. Just because you have a black belt doesn't mean you know how to run a martial arts business. You're not a black belt in business.
And I think that's huge too, that we have to humble ourselves to go out and learn it. I'll give you the floor, sir.
Jeremy (48:23.094)
Yeah. I I I think I think the biggest myth in that world is that so many martial artists, you know, they reach some level of rank, some, you know, generally some black belt rank. And they love what they do and and they want to open a school and they probably even get their instructor's blessing. And they figure it all out. They find their where they're gonna teach and
Gerry (48:35.144)
Uh-huh.
Jeremy (48:52.64)
They get people there on day one and you know, they get a few students in and some of them stick around and six to twelve months later they're looking at things and they're going
I better not do the math on what I make per hour doing this. And they don't talk about it because well, if if if I'm if I'm not running this school well, then I must be a bad business person. And if I'm if my students are leaving, I must not be a good instructor.
And what they don't connect the dots with is I was never taught how to do these things. Martial arts is the only industry I know where we think the qualification to teach comes out of the qualification to do. And it's in s it's utterly insane. And s even worse is.
Andrew Adams (49:40.042)
That's what I was gonna bring up.
Gerry (49:40.219)
yeah.
Jeremy (49:47.71)
the qualification to professionalize it. Because I know how to punch and kick, I can turn the teaching of punching and kicking into a business.
Jeremy (50:00.186)
it it based on the data that we have, fifty percent of martial arts schools do not make
Gerry (50:11.474)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (50:13.674)
There you go. Yeah, I was gonna bring up the teaching part that the the la last myth that I had was that once you get your black belt, you are a great teacher. And we the three of us certainly know for sure that those two things are not synonymous with each other. You can be an amazing instructor and not an amazing doer. And you can be a person that that that is
Gerry (50:36.456)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (50:42.514)
an amazing martial artist but can't teach it.
Gerry (50:49.106)
The sad thing is that you sh the society's given you that idea that you can because you are a black belt, which comes up with that myth that you must have all this knowledge, you've went through all these trials and tribulations, you've might have competed and did well, and you might be a great fighter does not make you a great martial arts instructor.
Jeremy (51:14.08)
Somewhere between red and black belt, you forgot it, but you you received a lesson in bookkeeping.
Jeremy (51:23.145)
and marketing and and you know how to how to handle human resources stuff and state paperwork filing and you know all that stuff and
Gerry (51:33.704)
Jeremy, it's not my fault. My parents who took me on vacation that week.
Jeremy (51:38.782)
That's right. That's right.
So that's right. Yeah.
Gerry (51:42.684)
That's why.
That's why that's why I didn't get it. That's why
Jeremy (51:50.25)
I think we should we should start to wind this up, but I what I what I don't want to do is close this in in such a way that it suggests this conversation is complete. And I'd like the audience to think about what are the what are the myths that you have seen and especially to to those of you out there who have recently earned your black belt. Though you are the ones I want to hear from the most. Because you are most freshly
immersed in these feelings you are anointed you right you know that you do not glow
Andrew Adams (52:21.993)
Anointed.
Jeremy (52:32.67)
And I'm sure that you're having some introspection on it. And, you know, as with all of our episodes, you can comment publicly. We'd love to have that, the Facebook page, martial arts radio. But I suspect some of you might not be willing to share that publicly. And if you do email one of us, Jeremy at Andrew at whistlekick.com, you are welcome to start your email with say by saying, please don't share this publicly, or please make sure my name is not publicly attached to this. And we will respect that. We've never violated that.
But I wanna hear from it 'cause I'll be honest, it's been thirty years since I earned my black belt, my first one.
I don't remember a lot of how I felt.
Gerry (53:11.461)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (53:15.096)
I would also like to say that I want this, like it sounds like we're talking down about being a black belt. I just want to address the fact that everything that people are talk that we're talking about, we might be making light of it, but it's not that we're making light of it in a negative way. We are trying to say that if you're going through these feelings, which is which does happen, and humans go through all kinds of feelings, it's okay to articulate them and go to someone say, I'm feeling this way. Is that normal?
Jeremy (53:21.236)
Mm. Good point.
Gerry (53:45.163)
And you know what? That might start the conversation for you to maybe start finding a proper mentor or having those conversations with someone that you may trust and working through that because at the end of the day, you spend some time becoming a martial artist and becoming a martial arts black belt. So it's taking up some of your time and part of your life. So you should ask those questions and look for answers for yourself. it's something that everyone goes through.
And I think that's what people have to remember. All of us have gone through it in some way, shape, or form. And we had to meet those challenges in some way, shape, or form. And it's natural. So don't feel like you're the only one. that's why I thought this topic would be great for us to talk about because it's not that it's a myth out there. It's something we're all going through. And we shouldn't be shy about it. We should actually talk about it and make everyone feel this is okay.
Jeremy (54:31.966)
That's good stuff.
Andrew Adams (54:42.325)
Yeah, it's natural and it's normal.
Jeremy (54:42.844)
Light light exposes truth. Right. If you're if you're hiding how you're feeling, if you're unwilling to talk about it with people, it's gonna be really hard for it to get better. If you're not sure where to go.
Gerry (54:46.541)
Mm-hmm.
Gerry (54:54.561)
Right.
Jeremy (54:58.432)
Find someone you trust, talk about it, email us, talk to I don't know, talk to Chat GPT, talk it through. Wha whatever, whatever whatever works. Don't hide and pretend the reality is other than it is.
Gerry (55:14.132)
Right. And I think it's this myth that well, you're a strong person, you've overcome other stuff. This is something you just will overcome or get over it. That old you know, g you just handle it, you're tough. That's not the idea. It the idea is like if we talk about it and we make it something that's normal, then it's okay to feel that way. Okay. And it's okay to to find mentors. Yeah. That's it.
Jeremy (55:35.22)
You can't condition your way out of an injury.
Jeremy (55:46.1)
I I'm sorry, Jerry. Find mentors.
Gerry (55:48.308)
Find mentors and mentors are important because there are it may not be your instructor, maybe other people from other clubs, but that like that group of of common people will create my god, it will resonate with you. And then you find better friendships, you know.
Jeremy (56:09.27)
And the better people around you, the better everything goes.
Gerry (56:12.266)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (56:14.582)
So I'm glad I got to spend some time with you two. Thank you.
Jeremy (56:20.054)
Jerry, if people wanna reach you and they haven't checked out your episode yet, how do how do they how do they find you?
Gerry (56:27.711)
DeSanto BGJ Network, look for it on whether it's Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. We're there. I am always looking for an opportunity to go teach at someplace. That's not a plug, but it's it is in a way. And I'm I'm just I'm just fortunate to do what I do. And I thank everyone for your opportunity. I love meeting you guys. Thank you again. And I appreciate it.
Jeremy (56:55.07)
Andrew, how did they find you?
Andrew Adams (56:57.033)
Andrew at whistlekick dot com. That's easy.
Jeremy (56:59.296)
So easy. And I'm Jeremy at whistlekick.com. And I want to thank everybody for tuning in. Jerry, thanks for being here. Thanks for pitching such a great topic. And you know, of course. And let this be a reminder to those of you in the audience. The best guests we bring on the show come from referrals. The best topics we have come from audience involvement. Just because you pitch a topic doesn't mean you have to be part of the episode. But let's face it, if
Gerry (57:08.456)
Well, thank you for having me.
Jeremy (57:28.462)
you're thinking it, if you want to hear us talk about it, other people do too. They may not realize it. But we would much rather create episodes that are in response to your inquiry than for us to sit down and say, what do we think people want? We'll do that. We'll continue to do that. But it's not our preference for how we run the show. So don't be afraid to reach out to us. We are at Whistlekick everywhere that you can think of. And so we're going to close
as we do close these episodes. As we close these episodes, I'm stumbling already. This doesn't bode well. With our train hard smile and have a great day. And Jerry, I'm gonna have you do the last part of the have a great day. So train hard, Andrew. Jerry
Gerry (58:06.301)
Uh-huh.
Andrew Adams (58:14.401)
Smile.
Gerry (58:15.78)
And my god, I forgot my line, say it again.
Jeremy (58:19.925)
Have a great day.
Gerry (58:21.234)
Have a great day.