Episode 1115 - Quitting Your Martial Arts School: The Aftermath
In this follow up to episode 1107, Jeremy and Andrew discuss the aftermath of quitting your martial arts school. Other peers, other students, parents of students, etc.
Quitting Your Martial Arts School: The Aftermath - Episode 1115
SUMMARY
This episode is a follow up to episode 1107 (Leaving Your School: Why, When & How). Hosts Jeremy Lesniak and Andrew Adams delve into the aftermath of leaving a martial arts school. They explore the emotional struggle of such a decision, the impact on relationships with instructors and peers, and the importance of communication during the departure process. The conversation is enriched with personal anecdotes and insights, emphasizing the significance of understanding one's reasons for leaving and navigating the social dynamics that follow. The hosts encourage listeners to reflect on their own experiences and the broader implications of leaving a martial arts community.
TAKEAWAYS
Leaving a martial arts school can be an emotional experience.
The aftermath of leaving involves more than just the instructor.
Personal experiences shape how one navigates relationships after leaving.
Communicating reasons for leaving should be handled with care.
It's important to maintain integrity when discussing past experiences.
Friendships may change or end after leaving a school.
The reasons for leaving can affect how others perceive the situation.
Not all departures are on good terms; some may involve conflict.
It's crucial to respect others' training experiences and choices.
Freedom in martial arts includes the right to choose where and how to train.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:58 Understanding the Aftermath of Leaving
06:11 Personal Experiences with Departures
08:57 Emotional Impact of Leaving a Martial Arts Community
11:53 Navigating Relationships After Departure
15:08 Communicating Reasons for Leaving
18:03 Handling Inquiries from Former Peers
20:52 The Complexity of Being Asked to Leave
23:59 Recontextualizing Friendships Post-Departure
27:06 The Role of Freedom in Martial Arts
30:02 Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up
Episode 1107 - Leaving Your School: Why, When & How — whistlekick Martial Arts Radio
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Jeremy (00:07.022)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of whistle kick martial arts radio and on today's episode. Andrew and I are talking about quitting your martial arts school. What that looks like on the other side. Back on episode 1107 we talked about what it might look like to leave your martial arts school. We had a great conversation and we received some feedback and as we keep telling you if you have feedback, if you want us to go deeper into some aspect of the subject, you have to tell us and we.
will consider doing it. Well, one of you out there did that. I don't know if we want to name that name. Andrew, you can make that call. You're the one that had the conversation.
Andrew (00:44.524)
I'm going to choose to leave that. OK.
Jeremy (00:46.382)
And this person said, hey, you know, can you can you go more into this aspect of the subject? Well, guess what? That's what we're doing today. We're talking about the aftermath, right? Sounds sounds almost apocalyptic, but that's not quite how we mean it. I mean, maybe it could be depending on what you've got going on now. If you're new to the show, maybe you don't check out martial arts radio very often. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, founder here at Whistlekick and my all the time.
I want to say oft anymore. You are part of, actually, maybe I'm the one that's often the co-host at this point, my great friend Andrew Adams. And we are here to talk about martial arts as we have been doing on this show for nearly 10 years. In fact, as of this recording, we are less than two weeks from our 10-year anniversary. 10 years ago, I was recording episodes and editing them and saying, what
What is happening here? I don't even know. But now here we are, the world's number one ranked traditional martial arts podcast, two episodes a week. And we're going to keep going because we love doing it. That was big intro. It was a bigger intro than we normally do, OK. All right. long as you don't. Yeah. To anybody who's here watching live because we are testing something, we are recording this episode live. If you're here live, feel free to.
Andrew (01:59.79)
There's nothing wrong with that.
Do what's out.
Jeremy (02:12.684)
Sound off in the chat. And if you have a question that you'd like to ask us, feel free to drop that in there. And we will do our best to incorporate it. We don't promise we get to everybody's questions, but we will if we can. All right. One note for the folks commenting in the chat. Remember that there's a delay between what we say, what you type, and us seeing it. So if you are not super detailed in what you are saying or asking, it's probably not going to make sense to us.
So be very complete in your sentence. You might need two sentences.
Andrew (02:45.59)
All right.
Jeremy (02:47.574)
And with that, Andrew, so maybe you can sanitize the request that came in a little bit and set the scene.
Andrew (02:54.798)
So episode 1107, 1107, 1107, we talked about leaving your martial arts school. there were some, sometimes you might leave because you just move away. Sometimes you leave because you have an issue with your instructor or you just feel that it's best for you. And so we talked about how to handle that type of situation. And most of our conversation really dealt around you, student.
Jeremy (02:58.668)
BOMB-07
Andrew (03:24.238)
Talking to and communicating with your instructor that you are leaving and we had a listener of the show Send me a private message and say that and and what they said was you discuss the interaction between the person and the teacher slash school owner we're leaving What about everyone else there are colleagues other teachers students? I've taught since age four suddenly. I'm gone, right and it when I got that message
I said to myself, you're absolutely right. This person was absolutely right. There are a lot more that we didn't get into about after you've left and the aftermath of that. I think we'll talk about some personal anecdotes of our own and give some thoughts there. But that's kind of the impetus, what a great word, for this episode.
Jeremy (04:16.78)
Yeah. And I'll probably bring in some of my own perspective because I didn't have this happen in a martial arts context. Well, I guess I have. I have left schools, but not in any kind of big way. But this has happened to me two different times in a CrossFit gym. And if you're a longtime listener, you know that
at least from my perspective, in the gyms that I trained in, there was a lot of crossover, a lot of synergy in the way CrossFit gyms operated, at least at the time I was training, and the way a typical martial arts school runs. I got some data there. Maybe, because, Andrew, I know you've faced this a bit. We were just talking about that before we started the episode. I don't want to.
say how much you have to say, but maybe you'll share a little bit about what you're willing to say.
Andrew (05:12.31)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I mean I have left Like in my career as a martial artist. I've left schools a number of times you know one one I left because I was in college and I just couldn't afford to train anymore and I moved away But I was young I was you know early 20 early 20s late late teens early 20s and I moved away from the area and I didn't really have great connections with
other students in the school with the instructor I did and I stayed in touch for a while and then I started training in a Shotokan school for 16 plus years and then I just moved away. Again there was no animosity when I left. I lived two and a half to three hours away. It didn't make sense and I still have connections to some of the students that train there. We don't talk on a regular basis but everybody understood and knew why I left.
And I do occasionally go back every once in a while. There'll be some sort of an event that they're doing Maybe there's a black belt test or someone You know, they host a big kicking event for cancer and I will go back for their kickathon to help out sure So, you know, I'm still connected to that school to some degree even though I would definitely say I left that school but in the episode
that we recorded about leaving, I talked about the last school that I left, I kind of left somewhat on bad terms. Like I basically said, isn't the school for me anymore and I left and there were students at that school that I was connected to. And so when the person wrote in to me, like you didn't talk about this, I said, you know what, you're right. And I hadn't thought of the interactions that I had had to manage after I had left.
Jeremy (07:07.468)
Yeah. Yeah, and it's, you know, it's
Jeremy (07:13.688)
I think for a lot of people, when we get to the point of leaving a group, whether that's, and by the way, if you see my phone drift into the shot, I'm trying to keep it out, but just, there are some channels that we can't stream to through StreamYard, and I'm just, I realized, let me see what I can do with my phone for a period of time. Maybe they'll switch over. Anybody watching on TikTok, you should switch over and watch us on YouTube.
When we think about leaving a group, we're usually in a pretty emotional place, right? Things have happened, boundaries have been crossed, right? Nobody's, know, everything's going great. I'm going to leave this group of people. I'm going to leave this martial arts school. Things are happening. You're unhappy. And what likely keeps us in are all the things that we're talking about today.
The things that delay us in our departure are maybe you really enjoy the training. Maybe there are people, maybe there are assistant instructors that you really like. And if we just kind of put all that to the side, it would be a really easy transaction. Because that's what it would be. This no longer serves my needs. I'm going to depart. It's fine. But when we start factoring in all of these things, because martial arts training is more than one thing.
Right, for a lot of us, it's community and it's people that we get to know before class, after class. You you punch somebody in the face and it becomes easier because you know who they are. And I think that that's really super important. And.
In my experiences, every time I've left a group, right? Because it's not just the CrossFit groups I've left. There are martial arts groups that I've left. And I assume the best of everybody, right? We're going to stay friends. I'll still see them. Maybe I have social time with that group of people already, and I expect that that's not going to change. But it always changes.
Jeremy (09:24.162)
because the thing that brought you together has changed. You are no longer brought together actively with that thing. You're riding on what has happened. And I have watched this happen. I watched somebody leave under neutral terms and their entire martial arts school turned on them because their instructor told everyone, can't be friends with that person anymore.
Andrew (09:53.901)
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy (09:57.806)
There's some awful stuff out there. so let's enter. Where do we even start? Where do you want to start? Do you have a do you have a spot?
Andrew (10:06.99)
I think it's a matter of first off recognizing that Your reason for leaving will affect how you interact with what your aftermath will be like, right? Yeah again if you move across the country if you're living here and you know, I'm in New Hampshire if I Whatever for whatever reason my wife and I decide to move to California Well, obviously I'm gonna leave my school and there's not gonna be any you know
ill will or animosity or anything of that nature.
Jeremy (10:37.386)
Probably not, but there could be. What if you're, I have, so you know, lot of people out there know I work with martial arts schools. And as an aside, if you want to grow your school, I'm a sound choice to reach out to, and you can do that. There are times when people in positions of authority, assistant instructors departing is, even if it is, I, my spouse got a job across the country, I am leaving, I'm going here.
that isn't always met neutrally.
Andrew (11:08.002)
interesting. All right. I guess I can see that. It's not something I would have thought of, all right. Yeah, that's fair. But I think in general, people will be more understanding.
Jeremy (11:16.718)
Please continue.
Jeremy (11:23.933)
I think most of the time. Yeah, I think that's
Andrew (11:25.954)
And I think if that were to happen in that particular situation you're talking about, the issue is not gonna be between the person moving and the other students. It's gonna be with the instructor, you would have, that would relate, go back to episode 1107 to talk about that. But in terms of dealing with other students, if you leave for very personal specific reasons, you have to decide how much of those reasons
do you want to divulge to the other students? So I will give a personal example. When I left the last school that I was in, as I mentioned in 1107, I felt a little taken advantage of. I was teaching a lot. wasn't getting compensated for it. I was being asked to do more. And I really felt like my personal journey was being stunted because I wasn't progressing.
Very much and I really felt my the direction for my martial arts was really taking me in a different direction and so I chose to leave and There were basically two types of students at the school there were there were students that I had interactions with because they were kids and their parents Right, we can't exclude them as well because they are also a part of this equation But then there were adults who were advanced students that I had a different
Personal relationship with there there were students that I would see at class and I'd say hi and if we passed each other on the street We'd hi. How's it going? What's going on? But we didn't we didn't Congregate together socially outside of the dojo But there were some students that I did see socially we would go and get beers after class or whatever and those types of The information that I chose to divulge to those two groups of students were different
Jeremy (13:19.97)
Yeah. Yeah. And there's, I think we, maybe we should have already said it, there's no right way to handle this. There's your way. And there's being true to yourself and what's important to you. Because no matter what happens, you are losing something. Maybe you're only losing your training. But you're the very least you're losing that. Maybe you find better training, but you've still lost the training you had.
Maybe you find better people, you, better people, right? But you lose the people you were training with. There's always going to be loss. So figuring out how to navigate this in a way that I think is...
Jeremy (14:08.778)
a true reflection of who you are as a person and as a martial artist and takes into account the situation that warranted you leaving. here's why I'm adding that to the pile. Because if you left your if you left your school for the reason that you did, Andrew, that's a very personal reason. Somebody else might have not only no issue with the the way. Your experience was that might be the perfect thing for them. They might be completely thrilled.
Yep. So you're not burning the house down, so to speak, on the way out the door. Yeah. But if you were departing because of significant broad ethical issues, maybe the instructor is involved in some inappropriate activities. And I'm being vague intentionally, but I think you know where I'm going. That's a different sort of thing. People need to know. And maybe you're telling people these things on your
figurative or even literal way out the door.
Because what we don't want to do is we don't want to let our personal experience on anything destroy someone else's personal experience.
Andrew (15:22.926)
Exactly. Yep Yeah, and for me those students that I had a social interactions with outside of the dojo we went out for a beer after I left the school and I was way more honest with them and I let them know like This is what happened to me. I am NOT like I was unhappy with my training But I want you to recognize that my experience is not your experience. You are not a black belt
You are not going to be put in the position that I was At least for years down the road if you continue to train then you might be a kind of black belt then you might be asked to do more and You might start to feel the same things I felt and if that's the case you have a little bit of background knowledge now as to that might happen But the reality is for you right now. That's not going to be an issue So my reasons for leaving should not affect you training at all, right? But I was open with them
with parents of kids, those kids don't need to know. I don't wanna spoil their training. They are very happy continuing to train at that school and a lot of them still are. And so when I would see a parent in the store, hey, we've noticed you're not around the dojo anymore. Cause I didn't go to the school and be like, peace out guys, I'm outta here.
All they know is I'm just not there anymore and they're like, hey, we haven't seen you around the dojo What's going on? And I just said yeah my my training is really just taking me somewhere else. I just started training in another direction That's all and just left it at that
Jeremy (16:55.554)
Yep. And that's not untrue. Nope. There's a whole bunch of context that was left out. Yep. Because again, who does that serve? Right. And so let's kind of put a wrapper on this. What we're talking about is informing people. Yeah. And I think we can split it between the people that reach out to you.
which is what we're talking about now, and the people you reach out to. I want to talk about that separately because I think that's a very, very different subject. The people that reach out to you, I would suggest finding a truthful way to let them know what is going on without throwing anyone under the bus unless it is necessary. I'm not even going to say warranted. I'm going to say necessary. If someone is engaged in illegal
or ethical behavior. keep in mind, if you're making these accusations, you darn well better have proof because the moment you start telling other people, you bear legal repercussions for this. So be aware.
Andrew (18:03.458)
Yeah.
Jeremy (18:07.822)
I lost my chance out there. When you're telling when you're when you're sharing these things with people, you don't have to give them the gritty emotional reason. You can give them the honest reason. If you go back to 1107, Andrew, you were very open about how you felt about things. to describe it as my training has taken me in a different direction. That is 100 % factually true.
It can be left that simply. Yeah. And in doing so, you maintain your integrity. Other people who who, let's say, know more of the nuance. Probably gain respect for you. you know, there's gossipy stuff Andrew could have said he chose not to do that. That's a good thing, because let's face it at lower ranks, martial arts is huge. As you progress in rank, it becomes much, much smaller.
And if you've been a long time fan of the show, you know that because of the number of times people have said, yeah, I saw you had so and so on. We trained together 12 years ago over here. So many of our guests even globally know each other because martial arts at upper ranks is very small.
Don't react like a petulant teenager and feel the need to make other people hurt in an effort to make yourself feel better because that's just another form of bullying.
Andrew (19:40.746)
Yeah, yeah, and and I didn't want to and I don't want to sound like this would have happened or that I'm Cool powerful enough to do this. I didn't want to destroy the martial arts school Like I wasn't happy training there for these reasons But those reasons are not in are not gonna affect any other student in the school So I'm not gonna try and burn the entire school and tell all the students you shouldn't train with this person because I personally had a bad experience with him
you're probably not going to have that bad experience. So I didn't want to taint anyone else's training because they're happy.
Jeremy (20:17.55)
At the end of the day, go ahead.
Andrew (20:19.644)
I was gonna say but I think
You're leaving my case was was these reasons what if and I know this has happened to some other students what if you are basically you the student are asked to leave and and the instance I'm thinking of I know someone that was asked to leave because they wanted to they were they were very happy in their school They enjoyed going to classes. They would help out. They enjoyed helping out they liked
You know getting other students and helping them progress and get better, but they also wanted to learn a little bit of judo or a little bit of You know that they they maybe they did karate, but they wanted to learn. you know taiko does these spin kicks? I want to learn those and the instructor of the school said You know what you've been doing this too long like you've been training in these other schools and and it's unacceptable You have to choose now. You have to either only stay here
Or you have to leave and the student decided ultimately to leave Yeah, what is that? That's now that person has some decisions to make on how to deal with other students
Jeremy (21:33.507)
Because now the emotion is even more significant because it wasn't your choice. Right? There's this... When we are pushed out, when we lose the decision, the emotional load becomes even bigger, right? Now we hurt, now we can't even reconcile with, you know what, this was the best choice for me. Now we're hopefully gonna come to that conclusion.
Andrew (21:37.443)
Correct.
Jeremy (22:02.146)
you know, this person made a decision for me. They made it easier for me.
But the instinct of now I want to burn the place to the ground becomes even stronger. You want all these people to know.
Sometimes we can justify that with the truth. Hey, what happened to you? So we'll come back around to when you reach out to people, still on, they reach out to you. So this happens, you've been asked to leave, somebody reaches out, you bump into them in the grocery store. Where have you been?
It's no longer as easy as saying my training took me in a different direction, even though that's still true.
Andrew (22:46.358)
Yeah. Yep.
Jeremy (22:48.022)
My training took me in a different direction and the instructor wasn't cool with it.
Jeremy (22:56.254)
I was asked to change. I was asked to change. there are 1,001 reasons that an instructor may say, you have to do this or else. Plenty of them I think we could justify. Hygiene, degree of force being applied in drills, causing drama, romantic notions. There's so many things there. And we've heard about quite a few of them over the years.
chunk of I don't remember the episode number, but Sabrina Bleeam's episode. We she and I talked about this and mix makes complete sense when an instructor in that context asked that gentleman to leave great episode to those of you out there if you haven't checked it out. But it still hurts. So how do we reconcile that hurt? What's more important feeling better? Or trying to burn the place down for the other people who are still training?
and enjoying their experience. Because really, that's what it comes down to.
Andrew (23:59.35)
Yeah, and and I think it also depends on I mean not that rank is everything's about rank but if If I if I were in that position if I had started to cross-train and the student the instructor said you can't Anymore or you have to leave and I left if a green belt a fairly beginner said hey, why'd you leave? I'm probably not gonna mention because the instructor wouldn't let me cross-train because it's not gonna affect them because they are so new
They're again, they're really happy where they're training But if a first second third fourth degree black belt comes up to me and says, know Why did you why did why were you asked to leave or why you're not training anymore? I'm probably gonna be a little more open with them about the reason because my that reason might actually come up for them because they might also Have the same inclination that I had that you know what? I want to see what's going on over here. I still love what I'm doing
But what this I just want to check this thing out and they might have that same sort of inclination and it will then become an issue for them. But that lower ranked student is not a not a big deal.
Jeremy (25:06.796)
We can expect that someone who's been training for, you know, four or five years plus at a school has been there long enough to make their own decisions. There's a difference between sharing my story and trying to convince someone. I'm never going to try to convince someone. And, you know, let's face it, any effort of getting revenge at the person, right? You know, we feel in that circumstance, we feel slighted. We feel hurt.
we want to, it is natural to want someone else to hurt, especially the person that caused our hurt.
Jeremy (25:47.928)
But it is all but impossible to cause that person hurt without causing other people hurt. And if you're watching an episode like this, you recognize the value of the people that you trained with and why would you wanna cause them hurt?
Jeremy (26:09.762)
All right, that's the reach out to you. That's when other people reach out to you. And I think that we're on the same page. Be short, be simple, be truthful. Don't burn down the house.
Andrew (26:24.086)
Yeah. Don't burn down the house unless you have to.
Jeremy (26:30.102)
Unless you absolutely have to and if you're not sure if you have to, you don't have to. Yeah, it is. I think 100 % of the time going to involve. Legal issues. Because everything I can think of that's an ethical issue is also a legal issue.
Andrew (26:47.074)
Yep.
Jeremy (26:50.168)
Who do we reach out to? So this is where, in my experience, there were... So I've left two CrossFit gyms. left... How many martial arts schools have I left for kind of reasons? One, two...
I think it's just two. There was one when I was younger. There was one a little more recently. One I had been at for two years. One I had been at for a very short period of time. And...
I chose to leave both.
Jeremy (27:25.226)
It's not quite the same situation, not the same reasons that you had for leaving yours, but ultimately, my training took me in a different direction. I wanted something different. What I was experiencing was not what I wanted.
And I remember as I left, I mean, we can throw all four of those things on the same pile. After a couple weeks, not hearing from anyone. None of my peers, the people higher up knew I'm leaving.
Three of the four, one of them, was, my role was changed. So I wasn't told I had to leave, but my role was changed dramatically. And weeks later, people that I thought were great friends, I haven't heard from them. They know I'm not there.
Andrew (28:17.422)
Hmm.
Jeremy (28:23.458)
They know something has changed, something's different.
Jeremy (28:29.932)
And I expected to hear from some of them and I didn't know how to reach out without making it seem like I was trying to create an issue. stayed calm. And that was really hard.
Andrew (28:39.318)
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
Jeremy (28:47.266)
What I found is time went on, you bump into somebody at the grocery store. You start to hear the rumors.
the one where my role changed. This was not a martial arts school, where my role changed, I learned that there were just flat out falsehoods being told. Jeremy didn't want to do this anymore. Oh, that's interesting, not true. And what I've come to realize, because it's a painful experience.
Jeremy (29:26.198)
A lot of relationships are contextual. Early on.
I was hurt and I, you know, I didn't reach out to people. didn't reach out. Why haven't I heard from you? Why, you know, there were a couple of people I said, Hey, you know, I thought we were good enough friends. They're like, yeah, I, you know, I didn't know what was going on with you. And in their mind, it was just as much, well, I didn't hear from you. You didn't reach out to me. And what I've come to realize years later, friendships can end.
without it being unhealthy. And a lot of friendships are based on common experience. There are, I mean, the number of people that I truly called a friend that I trained with, that I no longer train with, that I no longer talk to, that I'm not friends with anymore. It's massive. It's dozens, hundreds.
Andrew (30:23.094)
Yeah, and I bet everybody listening will have the same experience in some maybe it was co-workers You left your job like that happens all the time
Jeremy (30:32.142)
But that doesn't have to discolor what I had at the time with them. It doesn't have to mean that I recontextualize that relationship. you know, I didn't hear from Bob. We must not have been as good of friends as I thought.
No, it can mean that my friendship with Bob was about two people training together and I chose or I have departed. The relationship is just it's upended. And that may mean that it ends. And that may be sad, but that doesn't mean it's not right. And it doesn't mean that the time together wasn't good. Right. Sounds kind of like a romantic relationship because it's very similar. Just because a
a romantic relationship, a marriage ends doesn't mean that the time together was bad. It's natural to look back and try to, you know, create some distance from it by reframing it. But I think that that's wasted because who you are as a martial artist came from your time training at those schools and with those people and to disparage them.
is to disparage yourself in your training, your experience, and who you've become as a martial artist and as a person.
Andrew (31:53.678)
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Yeah. And I think the people that you reach out to directly, I think really has to do with what type of relationship you have with that person outside of the context that you know them.
Jeremy (32:13.144)
Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, we came up with a pretty clean rule for when they reach out to you, I think.
reaching out to them.
I think there's another rule and this is what I would do differently if I were to do it again. And I hope I never do. But if I do, it would be about.
putting that friendship into a different context. Hey, you may have noticed I'm not training there anymore.
I'll miss seeing you.
Jeremy (32:54.976)
You up for grabbing a beer?
Are you up, right? Are you, I'm going hiking this weekend. Would you like to come with me? Right? How do you rebuild that friendship with a different bond? Because if you try to keep that relationship about martial arts, it's not gonna work. Because there are only a few possibilities. That person's gonna feel uncomfortable because you're talking about your new stuff that they're not doing and they're gonna feel, I don't know, what's going on?
trying to convert me or you're going to feel uncomfortable because they're talking about the place that you used to be and you're uncomfortable.
Andrew (33:31.127)
or
Jeremy (33:42.031)
Or I mentioned in the example somebody I used to be incredibly close to.
If you don't recontextualize that, then word starts to come back and people start to gossip and you you shouldn't be friends with that person. Yeah.
Andrew (33:58.178)
Yep. And I've, I've been fearful that that's happened in my case. I don't know that it has because I have no idea what my old instructor has told the students.
Jeremy (34:11.085)
And that's a bummer. And you want them to know the truth, right? You definitely don't want them to know a lie. It's one thing to kind of gloss over the truth. It's one thing to say, oh, know, my training has taken me in different direction. That's fine. If everybody's on the same story. But if you're saying, my training has taken me in a different direction and somebody else is saying,
Andrew (34:17.176)
Yeah.
Jeremy (34:40.529)
Andrew started punching babies in the face and took some money. That's an intentionally ridiculous story, right? That's why I chose it. You want them to know the truth. No, I did not punch babies. No, I did not steal money.
Andrew (34:54.83)
I mean, I punched babies, but I didn't take their money.
Jeremy (34:58.83)
I thought it was the other way. I thought it was just the money. didn't punch him. No, a little bit of an inside joke for all of you.
Andrew (35:05.92)
No, I totally get it. mean, those instances are very, those two instances are very different, right? And I get that. And it can be difficult. You know, I mentioned that, you know, the group of people that I told what was going on were high ranking or higher ranked students in the school. One of them is a black belt and he's still a good friend. We see each other all the time. He lives right here in town. We still get together and work together and train together.
in a completely different setting than the dojo. But I have to be very careful of what I say in terms of I am now teaching this thing, but I want you to know that your current instructor, who is the instructor that I left, he's going to do it this way. And why his way is not wrong. My way is not right. They're just two different ways of I just want you to understand.
The place that comes up the most is forms. You already know this form, you do it this way. I now do it this way and it's different and this is why. They're not wrong, they're just different.
Jeremy (36:15.276)
Right. And that just that comes from you having.
the ability to speak to someone who has enough time at the school that you're not corrupting them. In fact, if you were to go to that person, because I know who you're talking about, and say, you shouldn't train there, it's crummy, my life is so much better since leaving, the most likely outcome is that it would damage if not sever your friendship. And I think when that is the case,
Andrew (36:43.788)
Yep,
Jeremy (36:50.178)
what's there to be gained.
Andrew (36:51.79)
Yeah, exactly. Yep, right. Yep, and it's very different from there is another student at the school who when I left was early green belt and this He Works locally I see him often when he's at work Because I stop into his place of business on a regular basis. So I'll see him a lot and he'll say oh hey, how's it going and
You know he'll message me on Facebook. Hey, I just tested last night. that is so great I'm so proud of you like that. You're still training. That's so awesome You know I wish I could have been there you know and he's like yeah I wish you could have too, but you know I've never told him why I left he's never asked why I left Or it's been a long time now if he asked me why I left it probably was the I just left and my You know my journey took me somewhere else, and I'm training somewhere else now
But I never got into the specifics because it didn't matter. He's very, very happy training at the school that he's at. Awesome.
Jeremy (37:56.984)
This all becomes a very clean, clear example of the six freedoms of martial arts that we talk about. And for those of you who might be new, if you haven't seen them, you can go to whistlekick.com and you can find the six freedoms of martial arts as we put them out. And the first freedom is the freedom of train. Where and when and why and how and with whom you want. And...
We could sum up everything we're talking about here looking through that lens. I am exercising my freedom to train elsewhere. Or someone else, my instructor perhaps, is exercising their freedom to not train with me.
And the other students there should also be able to maintain their freedom to train where, when, why, how, with whom they want without me interfering.
Jeremy (38:58.892)
And one of the other freedoms is it for the freedom to remain private?
Andrew (39:04.686)
You don't
Jeremy (39:04.952)
Don't have to tell anybody. Yeah. They don't have to ask.
what we're involved in as martial artists is so.
Jeremy (39:18.242)
fundamental for a lot of us to who we become.
that it's incredibly arrogant to try to stir the pot for someone else.
And you have to be really careful with that.
Andrew (39:35.906)
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy (39:41.826)
I think that takes us. Is there anything we've missed?
Andrew (39:45.302)
No, I think that's a fairly concise wrap up.
Jeremy (39:50.594)
Well, the episode was not concise because it rarely is for you because we like doing this. We like talking about this stuff. And if you're new to the show, we drop two episodes a week and find them on YouTube and Spotify. where you'll find the video versions. And you can also find the audio anywhere you're to find podcast episodes. And if you want the simplest place to find everything, it's whistlekick, martial arts radio dot com because we drop in the audio version.
and the video version and the show notes and all that. And if you want the easiest way to get to that because you don't even want to go type it in, you can join the email list because we will email you when we drop the episode. know, there are click you are if you join the list, you are never more than.
Andrew (40:28.597)
Click
Andrew (40:35.086)
Two clicks.
Jeremy (40:36.952)
Well, maybe three if you have to open the email. Open the email, click the link.
Andrew (40:39.959)
Okay.
Andrew (40:44.726)
No, no cuz that's right. We put the actual video in the
Jeremy (40:49.006)
Video OK, the players are right there. OK, so to open the email, click video or audio. It's that simple. And if you're not constantly checking out what we do, you should be because you're a martial artist and.
This is for martial artists.
Andrew (41:06.208)
And and this show is a perfect example of we truly do listen and read the things that you send us this whole episode stemmed from Someone messaged and said hey you talked about this but you didn't talk about this and you should and we we did here We are we've got an episode over a half hour long of us talking about that topic. So if you have a topic you want us to discuss Let us know
Jeremy (41:31.628)
We love audience feedback, please. Jeremy at whistlekick.com, Andrew is Andrew at whistlekick.com. You can reach out to us at any time. those of you who are long time audience members, make sure you're telling other martial artists about what we do. Andrew and I were talking before the show. The number of martial artists out there who know about Whistlekick but don't know about the podcast is strange. It's strange to both of us. So because we do a bunch of different stuff.
It's not just the show. All right. I think we're going to wrap here. Thank you, everyone. We appreciate you spending some time with us. And if you came in part way on this episode and you want the whole thing, this will get released in our standard podcast feed in the next few weeks. So watch for it. Ready to close, Andrew? All right. Until next time, train hard. we're doing this. And have a great day.
Andrew (42:19.373)
All right, let's do it.
Andrew (42:23.181)
My
my goodness, that was so fun. That was awful. That was pretty bad